DancingBear

I didn’t prove shit either. I think we’re on the same page.

If men have been harmed by feminism I think as men and as advocates for men and boys we would need to listen to the hypothesis and then look at it and try to solve the problem rather than worry about whose fault it is, whoever’s fault it is is less important in my opinion than trying to understand if there is a problem which seems to be true and then to go on and try to identify the problem and find the cause.

I don’t believe that many phrases that are helpful to feminist arguments and causes for women and girls that genuinely help them are as helpful when we are specifically talking about helping men and boys.

Yes, patriarchy of the 1% is probably not the best phrase.

Thank you for proving my point. Feminism can not solve the issues facing men and boys. And critique of feminism is not misogyny.

I’m far from alone. I understand that folks have been taught that any critique of feminism is somehow on par with misogyny.

Half of the posters here have argued that feminism is already solving the issues facing men and boys and half have argued that feminism by design is not responsible for these issues. The cognitive dissonance that allows folks to hold both ideas in their minds at the same time is very real, and shows a major fault of feminism by itself, namely, that feminism and feminists are unaware of both the problems they are trying to solve, as well as the problems they are unable to solve.

Question everything. Otherwise you’re in the same rabbit hole as these young men in the article, just on the other side of the fence.

This is a great example of you dismissing someone as being emotional when we are talking about fucking genocide. It’s fucking genocide dude. Get off your high horse and stop defending fucking genocide. This is not about an issue I feel strongly about, you creep.

This is about genocide.

This is an article about young men.

But yes, if feminism changed our classrooms and our dialogues in such a way that young woman are now able to achieve in way that they were not even allowed to before, to the detriment of young boys, then yes. This is feminisms fault especially as a group that claims to advocate for equality. Especially as a group that claims to also be fighting to help men and young boys out of the patriarchy.

Yes, feminism can be critiqued. If it has failed our men and young boys, it has also failed our women and young girls.

Even people in this thread have said that feminism fights for men as well. You can’t say that feminism fights for men until someone says the men and boys have been let down and then all of a sudden feminism is not fighting for the men.

Otherwise feminism is an ethereal veil of bullshit.

You’re either fighting for equality and equity or you’re fighting for superiority and some weird idea of revenge.

We need to find solutions that help both our boys and our girls succeed in an equitable environment.

If you’re saying well, we removed patriarchy it’s not our fault the boys are failing. I find that morally repugnant and an example of harm caused by feminism.

Yuppies

Wait. That’s my license plate.

Okay, so prevent Trump from eradicating the Palestinians as opposed to just accepting the mere genocide that Kamala will allow and fund.

I guess I don’t understand the difference between eradication and genocide.

You’re probably right. At least with Kamala there will be a few Palestinians left at least?

So kind of just accept genocide is the only option.

Oh okay, yea I guess I can just keep living my life as long as people I care about aren’t being eradicated.

I guess they are just going to have to accept that diversity equity and inclusion are a part of our lives now, and that they don’t get to make decisions about who is included, and that diverse opinions really are valuable, and that we are going to continue spending our public resources to ensure we all have equitable opportunity.

I guess what I mean is, too bad for your conservative friends?

Well in this sense equity I think is just a juxtaposition against equality… we all have different strengths and weaknesses as individuals, so to force equality in every aspect of our lives doesn’t really make sense.

If we aim for something like equity, where we all have more of an equal opportunity, as opposed to the forcing of an equal outcome.

But as far as education if the boys are not succeeding as well as the girls, I think it points to things we might need to look at to that we might be able to change that could help the boys. Do boys have different ways of learning, in general, than girls? What is it we are doing that is making it so girls are more successful in our education system, and are there things we can do better that would help our boys in similar way?

Equity here is not really related to anything dealing with finance, if that’s what you’re thinking. It’s about looking at what we’re doing wrong for girls and boys, and what we’re doing right for boys and girls, and doing our best to be equitable with the resources we put towards education so that we all have an equal opportunity to succeed to the best of our ability…. I think. Lol

In this use of equity we are accepting more men of equal merit than women because overall, women are doing better in school and we want to provide equitable opportunity for the most number of women and men possible, as equal as possible but in this case equity is our goal as opposed to equality. If we forced equality here women would be dominating universities (which they kind of already are)….. not sure it’s worked its way up to the faculty levels yet because of good ole boys clubs but yea….

What I’m saying is that men can critique the harms feminism has caused without being misogynist.

What I’m saying is just what I said, that men need a movement similar to feminism that advocates for the issues facing men and boys (in much the same way) that the feminist movement which has advocated (and accomplished some very tangible and positive change regarding) issues facing women and girls. (Edited for clarity)

Feminism is not the answer for the issues facing men and boys. So in that sense, it is kind of an us versus them.

But in much the same sense that equality seems like something is being taken away when you are the oppressor, it can feel much the same way to feminists when they are told that feminism is not the answer to issues facing men and boys.

Equity and equality really are a give and take, and life isn’t always fair. But we can remove systems of oppression for all, and we can work on this together where our issues intersect. But feminism can not speak for the issues facing men and boys, and as the only elephant in the room, it is definitely going to feel like something is being taken away when men and boys and their advocates begin to take steps toward solutions that will help them and their families (which also includes women and girls, so in that sense, advocates for issues facing men and boys also address issues facing women and girls).

If you are here to yell at people, you’re in the wrong space. You are only serving to prove my original point correct.