If Germany had an influx of highly qualified workers and professionals I guarantee you there wouldnβt be as much discussion. Immigration comes in different types.
this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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Germany needs workers on all levels of qualification.
Might be but letting people incompatible with our shared values in has always been a bad idea, especially when you let them stay indefinitely.
letting people incompatible with our shared values in has always been a bad idea,
Agreed, we shouldn't have let Poland and Hungary join.
Havenβt seen them burn flags and smash public property in my town though, lately.
Havenβt seen them burn flags
Who cares what a bunch of clowns did a couple of years ago in their own country? Not my problem.
But very telling that you had to dig deep.
I care about what happens in and around my home.
you had to dig deep
A ten second internet search. Yes I'm super invested in this.
I care about what happens in and around my home.
Well by that criterion, nobody has ever burned a flag or smashed public property near my home, so everything is peachy.
Yeah perhaps you could have posted a better example than a years old story not pertinent to the issue at hand.
You draw your conclusions, I draw mine.
I also haven't seen refugees do that in mine.
Poland and Hungary though, they just burn EU subsidies by funneling them into the pockets of the Prime Minister's family and friends and smash any attempt at civilizational progress or a fair treatment and distribution of refugees across the Union.
Germany needs workers, not people who are illiterate and unlikely to ever work. Germany has accepted a LOT of people of the latter, and it is causing a lot of social unrest. If the current ruling parties donβt get a handle on things soon, the far right AfD will take power. There are only a few years left to turn this around.
The integration of the 2015 wave of refugees into our labor market is progressing better than that of the 90s wave of refugees that came from former Yugoslavia did at the same time after immigration. They ARE working if we give them the opportunity. Expecting immediate 100% integration is not realistic.
Conversely, 45 percent of those who fled to Germany in 2015 have not yet entered the labor market.
I am not sure why you think this refutes my argument. It supports it. The employment rate is even worse for those who arrived after 2015, and is incredibly low for refugees of certain countries like Syria and Afghanistan.
For posterity, I am not claiming all refugees don't work. I am claiming many do not work, and immigrants who do not work are making Germany's social problems even worse.
I am not sure why you think this refutes my argument. It supports it.
No it doesn't. They integrate FASTER than others who came before them who were supposedly far closer to our "shared values and culture" (i.e. "not muslims"), and society didn't collapse when THOSE came. And the fact of the matter is this is while we're actively preventing them from working by straight up forbidding it and not processing their requests for work permits.
Did you know: Syria ranks first among countries of origin of foreign doctors in Germany.
Germany needs workers, not people who are illiterate and unlikely to ever work.
Germany wants highly-skilled workers, but pays them like interns. That won't work. Either you let everyone in and train those people to be useful in your workforce or you only let the highly-skilled people in - but then you have to pay them what they're worth.
You won't get the best of both worlds, but it seems like a lot of our politicians have the mindset that we're such an awesome country that everybody wants to come here.
The far-right politics of AfD/CDU/CSU are hindering our progress immensely. The population gets older and many people leave the workforce, but they still pretend like this can go on forever, without letting any migrants in. Good luck with that.
"we need more people that we dont respect to do the jobs that we dont want to. At the same time we have to make it really hard for immigrants to live here"
Also, we are going to complain that asylum seekers don't work while explicitly prohibiting work for asylum seekers.
It's one of the most blatant self-made problems around migration that populists very disingenuously employ to paint their favourite picture of the "welfare queen" which has been a bold, racist lie since it was first used.
But I'm also a bit sceptical of how you can do this in a country without mandatory collective agreements in all sectors. Germany at least has a minimum wage, but that just means wage dumping can only go as low as 12 Euro per hour. Back in Cyprus, where the same question is constantly in the news, the most notorious anti-worker industry, the tourism sector, is begging for asylum seekers to be allowed in the jobs that they have most trouble filling with citizens, EU-residents, and work-permit holders. But they want to do so outside a collective agreement (one used to exist, but for various reasons is now dead-letter) and essentially without even the protection of a minimum wage (which Cyprus didn't have until this year, and now it has an idiotic version of it which defines a monthly minimum wage without a limit to hours worked).
I think that the introduction of asylum seekers in the workforce should happen, but it should happen in tandem with a massive pro-union legislation change that will make collective agreements mandatory across the board (similar to the Swedish and Finnish models, as far as I understand those). That might require re-aligning the way unionism is understood in Germany from per-workplace to be per-industry.
unionism
Not sure this is quite the right term here. At least in the UK this is about being for the Union of the countries making up the UK, not about worker's unions and in Northern Ireland it is usually synonymous with one side of the conflict.
Given that the article is not about the UK, I don't see a good reason to reach for a UK-specific definition.
Don't know about Germany, but here in France there are lots of IT workers from the Maghreb.
And you need lots of IT? Youre not missing anything else?
Yeah we need (needed?) IT workers because until a few years ago, salaries for tech positions were really low in France compared to the rest of Europe and the US, so lots of French developers and techs emigrated to these countries.
Not sure about other industries, I work in IT so that's what I know from personal experience.
I worked with someone who moved to Germany/Austria/Switzerland (I can't remember) from France to do IT work and pay a bit less taxes from this IT salary.
I do believe French when they say they need IT workers.
As someone who is a highly skilled immigrant, I have been looking for a job for 3 months, my friends (all of them) have been looking for jobs for the last 6 months. Germany needs to fix this issue first before asking for more immigrants. More people won't fix anything if finding a job is so difficult.
aren't you supposed to take all of our jobs?! /s
i hope you succeed soon. a friend of mine is also looking for a new job for nearly a year now π
highly skilled immigrant
That means you want to be paid well, right? We don't do that here.
Right now i just want a livable job, like i got 1k eur as a student for working 20h/week so right now anything above or equal should do. My only requirement is that it is related to software cuz thats my field.
Man it is so crazy, i have masters from a uni which is 5th for computer science in germany. My gpa is 1.7 and i have 1.5 years of full time software dev experience and 3 years of part time (20h/week) software/ML engineering experience. And i have sent 70-80 applications and yet no interview. Like people if my creds are not enough to get me even 1 interview where i can show that i have skills that i claim to have then what will??
I think a better solution would be to fund pensions out of a sovereign wealth fund that's not necessarily tied to youth productivity.
Stops youngins from feeling like they're living in a geroncleptocracy, while also not tossing grandma out to live in the underpass