this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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US Authoritarianism

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Jesus is Fundamentally Socialist (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by alphanerd4@lemmy.world to c/usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world
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[–] crimsoncobalt@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Here's another one:

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 19:23-24

~~The "eye of a needle" referenced here was a small opening in the city walls meant to reduce traffic for security. A camel piled up with goods would would have a difficult time passing through it.~~

For full context, check out Matthew 19:16-28: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2019&version=NIV

Edit: as others have pointed out, there isn't any good evidence about the "eye of a needle" metaphor. I heard this from my pastor at church when I was a kid and it sounds like he was mistaken. I wonder what else he got wrong...

[–] ItDoBeHowItDoBe@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

What I think is important here, and what is seems many in the comments below are missing out on, is that Jesus says that it is hard, not impossible. Giving all your money away will not suddenly make you a good person, just as never having had money does not mean you are a good person. Jesus charged his followers with living lives of self sacrifice on the behalf of others in all aspects. Annias and saphira did not drop dead because they did not give up their goods but because they lied about it. I know many Christians who have done very well financially and are the most generous people I know. I also know some who are very stingy and uncompassionate with their money. The fact is, those who have more, have more that they have to give up. Those who have less, have less to give up. Each, however, is charged to live in the same manner.

God asks us to give freely and abundantly as he does. This is not forced upon us, though. There is no forcing someone to obey certian things in Christianity. Jesus says that is we love him, we will keep his commands. Those who choose not to keep his commands are demonstrating a greater love for whatever the opposite is at that time. Love involves choice, though. It is not a socialists ideology enforced upon every person. A perfect christian community would look socialistic but would arrive there through the perfect love of one's neighbors. Unfortunately, we do not live in a world of perfect Christians whose every decision is fuled by the love of others. I would also suspect that many, if not most on here, would have a problem with Christians forcing upon others their beliefs so as to attempt to achieve this. That, however, is what would be happening if someone forced upon others a socialists society without their consent.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

No, he says it's impossible. Because the needle wasn't a gate, it was a needle. And that's really clear from the quote in context:

Matthew 19:21-24

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

He was really, really clear on this. Do not be rich. The only way he could have been clearer is if he had literally said, "do not be rich." Oh wait, he pretty much did say that.

Luke 6:20

And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

But come on, he didn't say that you should be dirt poor. Like you can still have some nice stuff, right? That thing in Matthew was metaphorical, right?

Like 18:22

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Fuck.

[–] ItDoBeHowItDoBe@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

He never said it was impossible. He clearly says it is hard. When Jesus says to the rich young ruler to sell all he had and give to the poor and follow him, he is not saying to quit your high paying job that made you rich in the first place. He is saying to radically change the way you are living to benifit those around you. We make idols of things all around us. Many make idols of money. Some, though difficult, are able to continue to make a lot of money while simultaneously giving it away for the betterment of those around them. What I was trying to point out is that those who make a lot of money are not the enemy, but those who horde what they have to the detriment of the love of God and man.

[–] qooqie@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

So they justify not being socialist according to this verse by the word believers. They don’t want to share with non-believers or even believers of other denominations (they are also non-believers since they aren’t exactly the same). So they can be non-socialist and just tithe and think it’s fine

[–] GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The tithe is an Old Testament standard. The New Testament says that they should give whatever the pastor asks. If the pastor asks for 30%, they are theologically supposed to give 30%.

[–] ItDoBeHowItDoBe@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There is actually nothing in the bible about giving in accordance to what a "pastor" says. I am not sure where you got that from. While you are correct that the "tithe" as described in the OT no longer applies because we are not giveing to the temple, Jesus' command is to give freely, abundantly, and sacrificially out if s cheerful heart. The jews at Jesus' time would have actually given a good bit more than 10% because of the various annual festivals that also required a percent to be given. What they were giving was in support of the upkeep of the temple and the priestly line who was prohibited from working elsewhere. For Christians, there is no priestly line. We have two offices according to the NT, Elder and deacon. Neither of these are entitled to financial compensation because of the title. Where we get that we should compensate them for their work from the command that a laborers should not be without his wages, and many pastors are doing work that amounts to a full time job. The fact of the matter right now is that most "pastors" across the world are bivocational meaning that they hold other jobs if time allows.

[–] booly@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There is actually nothing in the bible about giving in accordance to what a "pastor" says. I am not sure where you got that from.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say they were told this by their "pastor."

[–] ItDoBeHowItDoBe@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Nope. I actually came up with that on my own after reading the bible. Many "pastors" still preach the whole tithing thing, though.

[–] Manmoth@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

ITT

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Most people asking these questions were raised by one or more christians. The failure of religious organizations to answer to their own ideals is the primary reason people leave a religion.

Example: Christians worshipping somebody as immoral and hateful as trump is driving people away from the religion.

[–] Manmoth@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 month ago

Your example doesn't make sense because Christians worship Christ.