In the interview, Merkel stated that Vladimir Putin, at the beginning of his presidency, had no intention of attacking Ukraine, and his plan gradually took shape over the years, partly due to the behaviour of the West.

Did he also have no intention of continuing to occupy Georgia and Moldova and the West forced him to continue the occupation and then invade Georgia in 2008?

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago

She is talking about the year 2000. It took 8years for the war in Ukraine and 14 until he took Crimea and 22 years until the full scale invasion. Is it really that hard to imagine that Putin is not some incredible mastermind, but does something big, when he believes there is a good chance of success or something else changes. In 2008 Georgia had made moves to join NATO, so Russia intervened. 2014 was the Orange Revolution and Ukraine was weak, so he attacked. If he wanted to take all of Ukraine all the time, that was actually also the perfect moment for that. However it took him until 2022, when he thought the West was weak due to Covid and a lot more propaganda, for him to attack. It might also very well be that he changed his mind on a lot of things, being in power for over two decades and yes the behavior of the West certainly was part of it.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So did the interviewer ask her this? Cause they should have.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago

Not directly, but she did say that the Bucarest Summit lead to the invasion of Georgia in 2008.

[–] Vivarevo@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago

Putins court ideogog wrote the book on russian empire path. They have followed it to the letter for decades. Even before ger reign. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 days ago

Hey someone should try to find a ladder - it might help her to climb down a bit from her own asshole.

For real, she killed any possibility of a response because she was too invested in nordstream 2. It was a conflict of interest, and it made a difference, and this war, right now, is the consequence.

[–] moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago

Denialism

[–] shoulderoforion@fedia.io 31 points 2 days ago

Merkel attempting to retcon all the decades long "success" she had on the back of cheap Russian oil and gas, selling out Ukraine in the process

[–] Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

A Boomer who refuses to accept and acknowledge their personal failing and complicit decisions?

Quelle surprise

[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 30 points 2 days ago

show me a conservative that accepts blame for anything

[–] Streetlights@lemmy.world 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Plenty of blame to go around. Where is Gerhard Schroder these days?

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Apparently his party wasn't able to expell him and caved. Source in German: https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Miersch-erklaert-Gerhard-Schroeder-wieder-zum-Teil-der-SPD-article25321765.html

[+] ormr@lemm.ee -7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The move to expel him was utterly shameful. A lot of smart people ridicule pacifists and people believing in peace through trade etc. They should be ashamed. Schröder was a great chancellor and he should be praised for a lot of good decisions during his tenure. His vision to position Germany and Europe in the middle between the US and Russia was farsighted, still is today. He kept Germany out of the Iraq war, turned out he was very right about that. He also fostered a shift towards renewable energy.

A lot of good could be said about his years as chancellor yet smug online "experts" on foreign policy of course know everything much better lmao.

[–] anachronist@midwest.social 8 points 2 days ago

Wasn't he literally on the Russian payroll? Cashing checks from gazprom.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A majority of Germans hate Schröder, because he privatized important infrastructure and then went to "work" for Gazprom. He's one of the top examples of corrupt German politicians and by supporting putins fascist regime he is in part guilty of causing russias wars, even though he may not have forseen them. russias domestic human rights violations were impossible to miss and as a German he should have known better for historic reasons.

[–] ormr@lemm.ee -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes Schröder was also criticised rightfully for his neoliberal policies that so many socdem governments in the west introduced during these years. But IMO you also have to give him credit for the stuff he was right about, which is so rapidly forgotten. And having peaceful and tighter relationships with Russia, even if it is an authoritarian country, was one of his better ideas. As a European I want peace on this continent. And we're not gonna have peace against Russia, only with Russia.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We'll have peace when russia has been destroyed and split into multiple smaller democratic nations, like Germany back in the day. This has proven to be very effective.

The friendly way has been tried and it failed, as there is war right now. Remember, Ukraine was friends with russia. They gave their nukes and got guarantees to not be attacked. russia decided to backstab them. russia can never again be trusted. The only chance for peace for countries near russia must be enforced by constant threat of russias destruction. russians, who support the invasions by a large majority, must live at the mercy of their neighbours, who must be ready to wipe them out any moment.

[–] ormr@lemm.ee -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you think Russia can never be trusted you'd have to say the same about the other countries failing their security obligations. Those who guaranteed Ukraines territorial integrity, the US, the UK, didn't act and send their own troops to stop the invasion.

IMO the friendly way hasn't been tried as NATO also didn't care about how Russia feels about this and that. The story is well known. There's not a single country or single person to blame but many of the involved actors.

To me it's lunacy to think Russia will be defeated and split up. Who's going to defeat them? With which soldiers? Europe is an old continent, there are so few young people... It would be the final demise of the European economy having to fight a war with Russia. And do you consider the risks? Russia has nukes. Before anything even remotely to the scenario of being split up happens, it will have used them. No sane person can ignore this threat.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

If you think Russia can never be trusted you'd have to say the same about the other countries failing their security obligations. Those who guaranteed Ukraines territorial integrity, the US, the UK, didn't act and send their own troops to stop the invasion.

That's not true. In the Budapest Memorandum those states only agreed to respect Ukraines territorial integrity, not defend it. In case of threat, they agreed to consult and to get the UN security council involved in case of an attack. Therefore only russia is the traitor that violated it. Even though Ukraine is not in NATO other countries go way above their obligations to help, because friends don't need defense pacts to help. However, if NATO countries get involved with soldiers, they risk losing their NATO support if russia strikes them back, as NATO is a purely defensive org and doesn't support attackers.

IMO the friendly way hasn't been tried as NATO also didn't care about how Russia feels about this and that.

That has nothing to do with Ukraine. Ukraine and others in the region didn't even consider joining NATO until after russians second attack and NATO also didn't actively try to recruit them. Everyone lived in peace, but that all changed when the Fire Nation attacked.

The story is well known.

That's russian propaganda to confuse the allied forces. Everyone sees right through it, as the russian people want the war just for expanding their country.

There's not a single country or single person to blame but many of the involved actors.

I strongly disagree, because russia did not have to start it and can still end it any time by retreating their troops back to russia. Even putin alone can stop it against the wishes of his evil citizens. Therefore, they are the only ones directly to blame.

To me it's lunacy to think Russia will be defeated and split up.

russia is already almost defeated just by Ukraine alone. They even had to beg NK for additional troops. How pathetic.

Russia has nukes.

France, UK and US, etc also have nukes. The risk of mutual destruction must be ignored, because it's not woth living in a world where villains like putin can just take whatever country they want and turn it to shit like russia, just because they have nukes. The other countries are ramping up their military as a reaction to russia attacking a peaceful nation. If russia doesn't retreat soon, the allies will likely also come to my conclusion, that russia must be defeated and split up. China will probably backstab russia once it's weakened, take a big chunk of russia for themselves and encircle Mongolia.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

She also fed the afd.. letting in a million refugees, telling everyone it will be fine and then not actually doing anything to prevent the issues everyone saw coming.

[–] Spezi 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And somehow now it‘s all the greens fault.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

I will never understand how that works.

[–] DrGeraintLLannfrancheta@nafo.army -3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

@Badeendje @Skiluros well, i'am thankful for 1 million ppl in our overaged society. And she and fckg Obama fckes it up in Syria letting this genocidal tyrant mass murder and gas their citizens! So this is actually the only thing she was right about!

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm not saying she should have stopped the migrants or whatever.. but integrating a million people will mean you need to invest heavily in making sure these people land properly, get the help they need (including medical and psychological where needed, language and integration, preventing ghetto forming, housing.. etc etc) I'd argue she came up short.

[–] DrGeraintLLannfrancheta@nafo.army 0 points 2 days ago

@Badeendje fair points.

[–] LowtierComputer@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Why are you censoring yourself?

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 9 points 2 days ago

spinscore

[–] WhiteOakBayou@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Ukraine was essentially a Russian client state until a few years later. I imagine very few wanted Ukraine in the alliance until a little more of the corruption was taken care of. Germany definitely benefited from cheap oil and gas from Russia while Russia did bad things but I think these are two different issues.