The move to expel him was utterly shameful. A lot of smart people ridicule pacifists and people believing in peace through trade etc. They should be ashamed. Schröder was a great chancellor and he should be praised for a lot of good decisions during his tenure. His vision to position Germany and Europe in the middle between the US and Russia was farsighted, still is today. He kept Germany out of the Iraq war, turned out he was very right about that. He also fostered a shift towards renewable energy.

A lot of good could be said about his years as chancellor yet smug online "experts" on foreign policy of course know everything much better lmao.

[–] anachronist@midwest.social 8 points 2 days ago

Wasn't he literally on the Russian payroll? Cashing checks from gazprom.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A majority of Germans hate Schröder, because he privatized important infrastructure and then went to "work" for Gazprom. He's one of the top examples of corrupt German politicians and by supporting putins fascist regime he is in part guilty of causing russias wars, even though he may not have forseen them. russias domestic human rights violations were impossible to miss and as a German he should have known better for historic reasons.

[–] ormr@lemm.ee -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes Schröder was also criticised rightfully for his neoliberal policies that so many socdem governments in the west introduced during these years. But IMO you also have to give him credit for the stuff he was right about, which is so rapidly forgotten. And having peaceful and tighter relationships with Russia, even if it is an authoritarian country, was one of his better ideas. As a European I want peace on this continent. And we're not gonna have peace against Russia, only with Russia.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We'll have peace when russia has been destroyed and split into multiple smaller democratic nations, like Germany back in the day. This has proven to be very effective.

The friendly way has been tried and it failed, as there is war right now. Remember, Ukraine was friends with russia. They gave their nukes and got guarantees to not be attacked. russia decided to backstab them. russia can never again be trusted. The only chance for peace for countries near russia must be enforced by constant threat of russias destruction. russians, who support the invasions by a large majority, must live at the mercy of their neighbours, who must be ready to wipe them out any moment.

[–] ormr@lemm.ee -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you think Russia can never be trusted you'd have to say the same about the other countries failing their security obligations. Those who guaranteed Ukraines territorial integrity, the US, the UK, didn't act and send their own troops to stop the invasion.

IMO the friendly way hasn't been tried as NATO also didn't care about how Russia feels about this and that. The story is well known. There's not a single country or single person to blame but many of the involved actors.

To me it's lunacy to think Russia will be defeated and split up. Who's going to defeat them? With which soldiers? Europe is an old continent, there are so few young people... It would be the final demise of the European economy having to fight a war with Russia. And do you consider the risks? Russia has nukes. Before anything even remotely to the scenario of being split up happens, it will have used them. No sane person can ignore this threat.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

If you think Russia can never be trusted you'd have to say the same about the other countries failing their security obligations. Those who guaranteed Ukraines territorial integrity, the US, the UK, didn't act and send their own troops to stop the invasion.

That's not true. In the Budapest Memorandum those states only agreed to respect Ukraines territorial integrity, not defend it. In case of threat, they agreed to consult and to get the UN security council involved in case of an attack. Therefore only russia is the traitor that violated it. Even though Ukraine is not in NATO other countries go way above their obligations to help, because friends don't need defense pacts to help. However, if NATO countries get involved with soldiers, they risk losing their NATO support if russia strikes them back, as NATO is a purely defensive org and doesn't support attackers.

IMO the friendly way hasn't been tried as NATO also didn't care about how Russia feels about this and that.

That has nothing to do with Ukraine. Ukraine and others in the region didn't even consider joining NATO until after russians second attack and NATO also didn't actively try to recruit them. Everyone lived in peace, but that all changed when the Fire Nation attacked.

The story is well known.

That's russian propaganda to confuse the allied forces. Everyone sees right through it, as the russian people want the war just for expanding their country.

There's not a single country or single person to blame but many of the involved actors.

I strongly disagree, because russia did not have to start it and can still end it any time by retreating their troops back to russia. Even putin alone can stop it against the wishes of his evil citizens. Therefore, they are the only ones directly to blame.

To me it's lunacy to think Russia will be defeated and split up.

russia is already almost defeated just by Ukraine alone. They even had to beg NK for additional troops. How pathetic.

Russia has nukes.

France, UK and US, etc also have nukes. The risk of mutual destruction must be ignored, because it's not woth living in a world where villains like putin can just take whatever country they want and turn it to shit like russia, just because they have nukes. The other countries are ramping up their military as a reaction to russia attacking a peaceful nation. If russia doesn't retreat soon, the allies will likely also come to my conclusion, that russia must be defeated and split up. China will probably backstab russia once it's weakened, take a big chunk of russia for themselves and encircle Mongolia.