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Idk sounds a bit fucked up to not erase some birth defects and disabilities if you have the means to do so. Don't have to bring eugenics into it if you can just give the mother a pill that will make it so that the kid won't have a fucked up leg or something. Hell, if eugenics is the worry, could let that baby be born with a fucked up leg and fix it later.
As someone with disabilities due to multiple genetic problems, If there was a way, when my mom was pregnant, to alter those genes, so I wouldn't have the BS, and they didn't, I would cut them out of my life.
That was basically everyone's parents but Bashir's.
Yeah at some point in future space tech it becomes a trolley problem where not curing genetic disabilities is as much of a non choice as pulling the lever.
The thing is, Star Trek was a show set in the far future trying to teach us morals about the present. And unfortunately for us, we don't have space communism so if the choice is between accommodating for birth defects and an ineffective, corruption-prone, dubiously safe eugenics program the choice is a lot easier. They have to communicate the morals of that on the show and it creates a hole in logic.
There's also a head cannon that the "eugenics wars" that they reference in the show has actually warped the morals of the society they're in for the worse as any discussion of pre-natal intervention is illogically taboo.
That's not head-canon. It's literally a plot point in DS9.
It's discovered that Julian was intellectually disabled as a child and his parents had him illegally genetically modified. He almost loses his commission and his father ends up being imprisoned over it.
I never saw LaForge as a "disabled person" at all. In my view he had superpowers. What puzzled me was why other characters didn't wear similar visors. I mean why would blindness be a prerequisite for getting the ability to see in infrared, ultraviolet, etc? Seems like everybody would want that. Especially if it could be ocular implants like he eventually had.
Didn't they address that in an episode? Or the movie with Cochrine?
Someone with functioning eyesight wearing the VISOR would just get a mishmash of nonsensical information. Their real senses clash with what the VISOR is sending them. Coincedentally it's also the exact same reason for another side effect. Pain. Despite Geordi not being able to see, his eyes still sort of fought the VISOR and caused him constant pain. It also had the ability to be hacked which isn't a great option.
Easy technobabble fix - the visor suppresses the optical neurons, or it simply acts as a blindfold so the real eyes see only darkness. LaForge's pain was because the tech wasn't fully developed. I forget if he still had the pain with the prosthetic eyes. Hackability is another problem we probably won't have in the real future because of quantum encryption or whatever, but it's still a good plot device present-day people can relate to - no matter how unrealistically it's portrayed - click-click-click... "okay, I'm in!" LOL.
Quantum encryption won't ever be a "thing."
All cryptography requires a pool of random numbers as inputs, and while different cryptographic methods are more secure than others, all of them are only as secure as their random number pool. The most secure cipher possible is known as a one-time pad which can be proven to be as secure as a cryptographic algorithm could possibly be, and so the only thing that could possibly lead to it being hacked is a poor random number pool. Since quantum mechanics can be used to generate truly random numbers, you could have a perfect random number pool, combined with a perfect cipher, gives you perfect encryption.
That sounds awesome right? Well... no. Because it is trivially easy these days to get regular old classical computers to spit out basically an indefinite number of pseudorandom numbers that are indistinguishable from truly random numbers. Why do you think modern operating systems allow you to encrypt your whole drive? You can have a file tens of gigabytes bit and you click it and it opens instantly, despite your whole drive being encrypted, because your CPU can generate tens of gigabytes of random numbers good enough for cryptography faster than you can even blink.
Random number generation is already largely a solved problem for classical computers. I own a quantum random number generator. I can compare it in various test suites such as the one released by NIST to test the quality of a random number generator, and it can't tell the different between that and my CPU's internal random number generator. Yes, the CPU. Most modern CPUs both have the ability to collect entropy data from thermal noise to seed a pseudorandom number generator, as well as having a hardware-level pseudorandom number, such as x86's RDSEED and RDRAND instructions, so they can generate random numbers good enough for cryptography at blazing speeds.
The point is that in practice you will never actually notice, even if you were a whole team of PhD statisticians and mathematicians, the difference between a message encrypted by a quantum computer and a message encrypted by a classical computer using an industry-approved library. Yet, it is not just that they're equal, quantum encryption would be far worse. We don't use one-time pads in practice despite their security because they require keys as long as the message itself, and thus if we adopted them, it would cut the whole internet bandwidth in half overnight. Pseudorandom number generators are superior to use as the basis for cryptography because the key can be very small and then it can spit out the rest of what is needed to encrypt/decrypt the message from it, and deterministic encryption/decryption algorithms like AES and ChaCha20 are not crackable even by a quantum computer.
KHAAAAAAN
Why wouldn’t you cure things at birth if you already know how to? Like, you know the kid is going to be blind, and you could just give the mom a shot to change that, but you’re gonna choose to let the kid be born blind? I dunno, that’s kinda messed up.
I mean, in response to the last one, the Federation does allow (and sometimes advocates) for the correction of birth defects.
Julian: DNA resequencing for any reason other than repairing serious birth defects is illegal. Any genetically enhanced human being is barred from serving in Starfleet or practising medicine.
Deep Space Nine, "Doctor Bashir, I presume"
Doctor: Yes. It's a girl. And aside from the deviated spine, she's healthy.
Paris: Will she need surgery?
Doctor: Fortunately, we've advanced beyond that. Genetic modification is the treatment of choice.
Voyager, "Lineage"
So I imagine plenty of disabilities do end up being erased, it's just that being disabled is also socially accepted to a much greater extent than today.
To add here, not everyone is born with disability but sometimes shit just happens
Why the hell would it be eugenics to cure disabilities. If you could turn me from a trans chick into a cisbabe, I'd be down. I mean on one hand periods will suck, but on the other, maybe my fucking hair will grow out!
I’m in the same position, but if I could choose between the best hearing aids the 24th century can offer or repairing my ears, then I’m going full Geordi. Much in the same way I know some trans women wouldn’t make the choice we would.
And that’s the thing, routinely Star Trek shows disabled characters having choices in how to approach their situation and making the choices they feel are right for them. Some people will take a 5% chance of negative consequences to get their legs back, and others will take a futuristic mobility aid instead.
We actually already see this in cochlear implants. They’re difficult; unpleasant, and would give you hearing you don’t otherwise have
STRICTLY PROHIBITED (unless you're a good boy doctor)
This is a stupid take as well. There is also evidence that the federation does practice the correction of birth defects and disabilities when appropriate.
And why would they not? Allowing such impairments to exist when the medical technology to prevent it is available seems insanely unethical to me. Like breeding pugs because if people stopped doing that the breed would cease to exist, ignoring the fact that being a pug is a miserable existence for the animal.
I believe the most sensible policy for the federation (and us in real life) would be to correct any and all birth defects, disabilities and impairments wherever possible, while accommodating and fostering compassion and acceptance for the cases where it is not possible.
Disabled people are not lesser than anyone else and should have the same capacity to participate in society, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try everything to prevent people from being disabled.
Here is my take, assuming:
Situation 1:
Woman learns she is pregnant, say week 6. Gets a routine scan on the embryo. She discovers it has a genetic disorder. That will cause it to not be able to breathe well, running and playing will not be an option for your baby, they will survive; sweet no brainer there; splice in the fix doc. Correction is spliced in the next week, monitoring for rest of normal pregnancy.
Situation 2:
Woman learns she is pregnant, say week 6. Gets a routine scan on the embryo. Doctor says, looks like there is a genetic defect, the audio nerve is not going to develop normally, your baby will hear badly at birth, and then over the next two years will go permanently deaf. Implants could fix this issue after birth, and living as a deaf person is not difficult. However we can ensure that the nerve develops normally and your baby will have perfectly normal hearing.
In situation 1, the obvious answer is to fix the issue, having life long breathing difficulties that could easily be avoided would be cruel.
In situation 2, in my opinion it would also be cruel to impose on a kid; hey we could have fixed your hearing in a safe and effective way, but we decided for you before you were born that you would be "special".
I get where people are coming from, but they are looking at it with 2024 eyes, not 2424 eyes. Why would you impose on a kid, who has no say in the matter, a disability? Because that is the choice you are making, you are imposing a disability on a child that does not need to be there.
We currently give women folate, to protect against neural tube defects; along with a bunch of other interventions. We are already "interfering" with the "natural" progress of pregnancy and birth, we are only going to get better at it.
And also the conflating of eugenics and fixing birth defects is completely off base. These are only related by the fact that breeding is involved; they have nothing in common beyond that. In the same way that my kitchen knives would make great stabbing weapons, but cooking and stabbing only really have the tools in common.
My only problem with this is that Geordi made it clear more than once that not only would he rather just be able to see, but that his VISOR caused him constant pain. I wouldn't really call that accommodating for his blindness if that's what was required to get into Starfleet later.
And, of course, that was what made it so impactful when he finally had eyes that worked.
And then there was Melora on DS9. Starfleet could have done so many things to fulfill her dream of traveling the stars without having her be stuck in the chair in near-1g environments or accept Bashir's treatments. In fact, the only reason so few Elaysians ever left their homeworld was that everyone else was fine with 1g and no one gave a shit about their needs.
Is over thinking tv shows a disability? Asking for a friend, obviously.
If me writing a 20 page essay about my favorite TV show and being a major contributor to the wiki counts as a disability, then I want a parking permit.
Granted on the premise that leaving the house should be rewarded.
"curing at birth" != "Eugenics"
Still, the spirit of accommodation is spot on.
https://youtu.be/bqm_Iq8rFeg?t=16
"Surely by the 24th century, they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness." Gene Roddenberry had the perfect response.
"No, by the 24th century, no one will care."
Why is Barclay disabled. Unless being a perv is a disability.
Lt. Barclay has an anxiety disorder which greatly interferes with his ability to live his life as he wants to.
Also what disabilities do Julian and Tilly have?
Tilly is obviously ginger