this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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Summary

Germany’s government approved a draft law requiring young men to indicate their willingness to serve in the military, aiming to increase military participation without reintroducing conscription.

The survey will target around 300,000 18-year-old males in 2024, with young women given the option to participate. This initiative follows years of recruitment challenges since Germany ended compulsory service in 2011.

With a growing focus on defense in response to Russian aggression, Germany seeks to increase its military personnel from 180,000 to 203,000 by 2030.

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[–] ninjabard@lemmy.world 40 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

If they'll get me out of the US, I'll fight.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 32 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Germany also has a right-wing problem. One is the frying pan, the other the fire. Not sure which is which, but it wouldn't be a great change.

[–] elmicha 29 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Yes, Germany has a right-wing problem, but according to this poll, 74% would have voted for Harris and 11% for Trump.

[–] Eril 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Also we don't have a FPTP system, which might be a good thing as well (don't @ me about Erststimme, I know, but it doesn't change the overall point).

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 8 points 2 weeks ago

Polls don't work any more.

[–] sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

That's just because they live in the 21st century.

[–] NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Canada says similar but it's looking like we'll vote in our own (more coherant) Trump anyway

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm not entirely sure "more coherent" is a valuable trait here

[–] NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

No, honestly it's probably the opposite of a valuable trait in this case tbh

[–] atlas@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

this is most likely from feeling let down by the liberal party. especially since they seem to push in a direction that only profits them

sadly, i don't see the ndp gaining any popular votes and people will flock to conservative nutcases hoping for change

[–] ninjabard@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Better food and better beer but that's a fair point.

[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago

I'd take a burger or some fried chicken over German food anytime.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

I don't think Germany is really an option, since the thing being discussed in this article (a) is just a proposal and (b) has nothing to do with foreigners anyway.

However, if you're serious, what is a thing is the French Foreign Legion.

[–] Foofighter@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/topics/migration/migration-node.html

This is the official site of the ministry of migration and integration. To serve in the German military, you need citizenship if I recall correctly. You'd have to get here yourself, though.

[–] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

I hope they do this on my country so I can draw a big fat juicy cock on the survey

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And they have yet not arrived in the 20th(!) century. They are sending this form only to young men, not women.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee -5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The draft is actually harsher for women than for men: Men can refuse service at arms, women can't refuse medical service.

EDIT: Don't believe me? Article 12a GG, Paragraph 4. There are no alternate service provisions for refusing medical service.

[–] NeuronautML@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Any person who, on grounds of conscience, refuses to render military service involving the use of arms may be required to perform alternative service.

So men can refuse service at arms, but they can't refuse service, so how is that better ? Either way you're still drafted into war. Possibly into medical service as well. So it's not harsher, it's the same or worse, because you could be drafted to maintenance near the front lines, whereas medical is usually a ways back. Or as a woman you could volunteer to maintenance, logistics or recruitment before being drafted, then you're not forced into medical. You're likely not even put near the front lines as a woman.

So your statement that it is harsher on women is not correct. It's actually quite insensitive for the men who die in the front lines for the country.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

because you could be drafted to maintenance near the front lines,

And field hospitals can't be near front lines? If with "near the front" you mean "you're running around with a sidearm" then that's a combat role, combat mechanic isn't a non-combat role, the actual maintenance is just as far back as hospitals are.

So your statement that it is harsher on women is not correct.

You cannot interpret "harsher" freely, without taking account what I called harsher, after the colon: Women who don't have the stomach to go into the medical field don't have an out, legally speaking. While the law says "Not all men are fighters", it is saying "all women are nurses". You see the difference in essentialism there, don't you?

[–] NeuronautML@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

No, i meant field medic. As in, giving first aid in helicopters or trucks as they drive away ferrying the wounded from the front lines, brought by their comrades. These are jobs that traditionally they don't give to women. They put women in the hospitals on the back and use men in the transportation and first aid, although sometimes women do volunteer to do this job like it happened in Ukraine.

As for a mechanic, if you're fixing an anti air system or a tank, you're pretty much next to the frontlines. You're just not shooting at the enemy, but you're still shot at by artillery or missiles. Combat engineers would be shooting at the enemy, but maintenance personnel are not. Those are specialized military personnel, not draftees. They're not deployed to push a frontline or defend a position, so they're not really combat roles. Although I'm not completely sure about it and if someone knows more about this than me, I'd sure like to learn about it.

Being in medical doesn't necessarily mean you will be taking care of shredded soldiers. There's tons of jobs in medical, such as ressuply of medicine cabinets, transportation of medical equipment to and from medical rooms, transportation of sick people in medical beds, post operation medicine, feeding and bathing soldiers, etc. If you've got a weak stomach, they don't want to put you in a position where you would pass out, then they have to take care of you too. But i can appreciate that it's hard on women too, of course. Nobody deserves the misery that war brings.

When you're drafted though, you're screwed whether you're a man or a woman. My father volunteered when my country was at war and they started drafting people so he could avoid the frontlines and got a real nice job working in long range radar maintenance. I think I'd probably do the same if i were in that position. You get to pick where you go if you volunteer.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

You’re just not shooting at the enemy, but you’re still shot at by artillery or missiles.

If you're in artillery range that's a combat role. Definitions may differ but you're "serving at arms".

...and, no, when Ukraine is sending in a Leopard or such for repair they're not doing it on the frontlines. The service centre is in Poland, the frontline is too much of a fickle place to have big cranes, stacks of turrets and chassis to mix and match, etc. That's a different thing from a shop a bit back from the frontline that can do "extended field repairs", say, replace a track, or switch other parts that are designed to be easily replaced. Those places are at least semi-mobile and part of the tank battalion.

[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago