Yikes the anti-feminist takes in this thread lol
Men do not experience body policing in even remotely similar ways to women. If that fact offends you you probably don't actually understand how misogyny functions.
this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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The standard of “very good body” is higher for women, sure, but the standard of “good enough body” for women is much, much lower than the one for men.
The first one is useful if you want to be an actor or model, the second if you want to find a partner for life. Guess which of the two is more relevant for the average person.
This assumes women on average are as interest in "just sex" as men are. I don't care for men thinking my body is just good enough for sex.
I mean, in a relationship, what else do you need a body for? The main thing that keeps two people interested in each other is the personality, as long as the bodies are “good enough” to sexually stimulate your partner there’s not much more they’re needed for. Hell, for some that isn’t even a requirement.
But it doesn't make sense to complain about women supposedly having higher standards when men and women seem to have, on average, different expectations towards a relationship? I would rather be alone than being with a person who just finds my body good enough. For many men this seems to be different.
I always thought the “different expectations” prejudice about relationships was more about average men wanting a “body to fuck” that’s also a pleasant person and average women wanting a pleasant person that’s also a “body to fuck” (you know, the old adage about push-up bras and lies).
I don’t know if it’s also about how much is your body attractive to your partner, to me it seems like an unnecessary requirement and kind of “objectifying yourself”. Like, if a person is in love with your personality and finds your body simply “attractive”, is that not good enough for a relationship to you? That situation is like hitting a jackpot for most men I know.
It is objectifying towards yourself. And it stems from the fact that in media and our society in general women are valued by their looks. There are very few examples for likeable female characters, for example, who aren't also beautiful and young. It's a complex issues and that's why it is especially questionable to produce such a meme.
It is objectifying towards yourself.
Then why would you do that? If you recognize it’s not right to expect that, why would you specifically want a partner that absolutely loves your body?
There are very few examples for likeable female characters, for example, who aren’t also beautiful and young.
Because, as we’ve been saying, most characters (whether males or females) in fiction are beautiful. There’s also very few examples of likeable male characters that aren’t also beautiful.
You might have a point with the age but I’d attribute that to historical Hollywood stars being mostly male, as more popular actresses get old we’ll definitely see more likeable old women.
You would do that because that's how you are socialised as a woman growing up. Your value is your youth and how beautiful you are. That's it.
It is not easy to just rid yourself from socialising. As a man this can be hard to get when it's about beauty standards because beauty standards imposed onto men are not even close as restrictive as those imposed onto women.
There are many examples for unattractive, funny looking, old, chubby, etc. male characters in media. For female characters that's the exception.
I don’t know, I really don’t get the reasoning. I can understand being conditioned so that your subconscious gives a higher importance to your body than what it should be, and that can be hard to completely get rid of, but you consciously typed “I would rather be alone than being with a person who just finds my body good enough”. That doesn’t seem like something egodystonic you’re actively trying to fight.
And as for representation in media, are all those funny looking/chubby characters actual, three-dimensional characters or are they just the comic relief whose main point of their personality is “he’s a nerd/fat/ugly”? Because for fat kids that’s exactly the opposite of body positivity, and the only reason why there’s so many males and little females in that trope is because making fun of a woman for her appearance is generally something frowned upon (meanwhile for men it’s totally ok, at least until recently)
Why would I fight it though? I don’t see it as a necessity to have a romantic relationship with someone.
There are plenty of examples where the male character is not attractive and is also not made fun of.
Because you said it’s objectifying yourself? And that’s not a good thing? And saying you’re not that interested in romance is very different from “I would rather be alone than being with a person who just finds my body good enough“. That means you’re interested, as long as the other person finds your body very attractive.
Again, define “not attractive”. Because ugly and fat characters are almost always made fun of. If “not ugly, but not gorgeous” characters count as “not attractive” I can find a lot of female ones too.
I feel like you really try to twist what my point is or I am not good at explaining it in English. When you have been told your whole life that all you have as value is how physically attractive you are, the way you approach relationships is different.
While a man perhaps can still believe the other person likes them, even though they only find their body ok or good enough, for many women this is much harder. That has a lot of consequences for our society, including the difference in behaviour in online dating apps, why women are less likely to buy sex, dead bedrooms, etc.
It's just a matter of what feels worse for me. And for me it feels much worse to be with a man who settled for me, than to be single.
Regarding representation in media, I won't argue with someone who seriously tries to say female characters have a diverse representation just as male characters. That's frankly a ridiculous take. Arguing with someone who seems to live in a different reality doesn't make sense.
It’s just a matter of what feels worse for me. And for me it feels much worse to be with a man who settled for me, than to be single.
I’m not talking about “settling for”, I’m talking about someone loving you for your personality and not really caring too much about how attractive you are. Isn’t knowing your partner loves you for who you are and not for how you look like a better situation? Again, relationships are something that’s ideally supposed to last for decades, a beautiful body isn’t.
Regarding representation in media, I won’t argue with someone who seriously tries to say female characters have a diverse representation just as male characters. That’s frankly a ridiculous take. Arguing with someone who seems to live in a different reality doesn’t make sense.
There’s a lot of beautiful men and women in media, and there’s a lot of average-looking men and women in media. I already explained why I think there’s way more “ugly” males than females but you’re saying it isn’t true because there’s plenty of male characters that “aren’t attractive” and aren’t made fun of, so I asked for your definition of “not attractive”, as if you mean definitely-less-than-average I really can’t think of many.
Isn’t knowing your partner loves you for who you are and not for how you look like a better situation?
In my experience such men do not exist. I know rationally they do, but the chance of meeting one seems so rare to me it's easier to give up looking for them.
You have to understand, starting from about the age of 13 men have been hitting on me, including those who were married. I watched friends who I thought were amazing and loyal people betray their girlfriends or wives when they got a shot with a "prettier" woman. Not even talking about the situations with my own boyfriends in the past, falling for another woman because she was visually more to their taste or they were nitpicking my body.
I have seen how different my father treats his much younger girlfriend versus how he treated my own mother. I see how one of my brothers treats his new younger girlfriend versus my sister-in-law. And in both cases it's definitely not about character. Etc. etc. I don't think this is a unique experience of me but shared with many.
there’s a lot of average-looking men and women in media
It's beyond me how anyone can watch movies, anime, video games or anything really and arrive at the conclusions you do. There are plenty of average looking men in media and especially diverse looking men. Women are shown much less in screen-time and when they are shown, in the majority of cases, they are of a similar type that fits current beauty standards.
They don't put men like this in movies for women.
Yet they all still drool over them 🤔
What is the point? Of course a good looking man is good looking. Why wouldn't I find his body attractive?
Why can't you talk about this issue without a side jab at the issues women face?
What side jab? Showing men can face similar issues is a side jab?
Why can't things be compared?
What side jab
The first lines of the meme. Explain to me what else they are supposed to mean?
All of these are in superhero movies, not exactly a representative sample of male movie bods.
Except for the fact that basically every leading man who takes his shirt off in 99% of mainstream movies have physiques much closer to this than those of most regular people.
How many women in movies with regular bodies are shown?
The difference is that those men are not objectified. Yes, those bodies are unrealistic indeed, but those beefcake guys are not presented as sex objects who have no other purpose in this world than to please women.
I think you have a point except for the fact that the meme is about unrealistic body standards, not objectification. So it's kinda like bringing up pancakes in a conversation about waffles
But why does the meme has to take a jab at the problems women face? It's undebatable that women are faced with unrealistic body standards all the time. And I don't get why the meme has to try and take away from that.