this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
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cross-posted from: https://radiation.party/post/41704

[ comments | sourced from HackerNews ]

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[–] dafungusamongus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Copyright laws desperately need to be updated to account for scenarios like these. Although, to many people piracy is undesirable, I take no issue with anyone using this method to acquire content that is otherwise unavailable.

[–] vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately I'm not expecting those laws to ever change for the better.

[–] demonsword@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

and they won't as long as lobbying is legal and legislators are all in the pockets of big companies

[–] Grangle1@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The only times I allow it myself are in this case (zero legal availability) and for unofficial/fan translations of games not available in your home region/language. Nobody would be getting your money anyway, no theft of compensation/profits there. If any games do become available, though, then we should support them. The more we put our money where our mouth is for a return to market for these games, the more incentive there is for companies to bring more of them back.

[–] xenonisbad@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This may be hot take, but I think games are art and are part of our cultural legacy, and making steps that stops us from enjoying us from that legacy should be considered a crime, especially when they put at risk art disappearing forever.

I would start with simple rules:

  • 5 years after last new copies of the game stops being sold, pirating it stops becoming a crime
  • 10 years after platform (console?) stop being produced, if there is no official emulator available, all emulators of that platform become legal
  • intentionally trying to stop people from buying a game without breaking above rules (for example, selling one copy for price of 9999$) is a crime

As a result, I would expect all companies to either invest in backward compatibility on unprecedented level, or more likely start porting their games to PC (because they will keep being produced), even if that meant selling copies to be used with emulators. When there is money on the table, or perspective of losing money, corporations are really quick to find solutions.

[–] tobier@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Emulators are not illegal, where did you get that from?

[–] xenonisbad@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are legal problems when creating emulators, sure people work hard to avoid them, but I don't think they should have to do that in those cases, so I specifically wrote "all emulators" should be legal. For example, Dolphin to work requires cryptographic keys that technically belong to Nintendo, so they may be sued for providing them. Some emulators require you to find bios on your own because they can't legally provide them, and their emulator doesn't work without it.

[–] tobier@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

If you bundle cryptographic keys, bios or other copyrighted content then yes obviously it's illegal.

It's not illegal to implement an emulator.

[–] Gray@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This isn't necessarily always true. PCSX2, the main PS2 emulator, for example needs a BIOS file that can only be obtained from an actual PS2 (or "illegally"). I'm not sure why that emulator requires it when others don't. The closest thing to an explanation I could find online just said "legal issues", but didn't go into details. That makes me suspect that there was pushback from Sony about the emulator. So if such emulation laws were to be written they absolutely should protect in stone the right to create and use emulators. If a company can find a loophole to block you, they will.

[–] tobier@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It's required because a lot of the functionality of the PS2 is in the embedded software, the BIOS.

The problem is not the emulator itself, it's the BIOS which is copyrighted. The emulator is not illegal, but bundling the BIOS with it would be.

[–] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

We need a use-it-or-lose-it clause for all copyrights. If the rights holder is not making a good faith effort to sell copies, they should forfeit their copyright entirely and the work in question goes straight to the public domain. 5 years is generous, I'd make the grace period 6 months.

[–] MercuryUprising@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This is how you get Fantastic Four (1994)

[–] hansl@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Emulators are not illegal. ROMs are illegal if you didn’t rip it yourself. If you did rip it yourself it’s a gray area. See https://youtu.be/yj9Gk84jRiE

[–] fcSolar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This strikes me as weird and unnecessarily convoluted. IMO the best solution would be to limit corporate held copyrights to 10 years after first publication or 15 years after creation, whichever is sooner, and limit individually held copyrights to the life of the creator. After that's up, the work becomes public domain, and people can freely post it without repercussions, meaning the masses will handle archival and distribution essentially without prompting. Simple, with very few loopholes as far as I can see.

[–] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is why I say, with not a single drop of irony, that piracy is a public service.

[–] ElectroVagrant@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Piracy isn't piracy when it's no longer sold.

[–] MrPoopyButthole@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This kind of thing (and e-waste in general) is why I think we need radical laws about unsupported hardware in general.

If an electronic device (phone, laptop, etc) stops receiving software support, the most recently available firmware should be made freely available under public domain.

Apple is obviously the worst offender, but it's just horrible when you have really great hardware that's 100% worthless just because the software is unsupported and proprietary.

The number of iPads, smart home products, and other devices that become e-waste every year is unsustainable. If companies were forced to release the code for free when they stopped supporting devices, maybe they would support them longer. Or at least bother innovating for a change.

[–] brainwashed@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apple is obviously the worst offender, but it’s just horrible when you have really great hardware that’s 100% worthless just because the software is unsupported and proprietary.

How so? Because they produce hardware that one would actually like to use after firmware updates cease? They provide updates the longest and are evidently not worthless, as they have higher resale values than Android devices the same age.

[–] AProfessional@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

None of that matters. Open hardware from 2003 still works because of course it still works. Apple is artificially bricking hardware for profit.

[–] brainwashed@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What is Apple bricking and in which way is it worse than any other android OEM that provides updates for shorter?

[–] AProfessional@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Apple stops updating devices and their phones are locked down and their macs are only really supported by proprietary software eventually losing functionality artificially.

Yes other companies are immoral and anti consumer. At least some Android devices let you install custom software making them easily outlive locked down ones.

[–] brainwashed@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Every intel Mac lets you install Linux too. M1 is well on its way.

As for phones: Apple provides updates longer than any android manufacturer. In android phones you too have non unlocked bootloaders as well as proprietary firmware blobs without which operating the phone is near impossible.

So I see no Dimension in which Apple is the worst.

[–] AProfessional@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You keep playing this comparison game…

The iPhone is full of anti consumer patterns, it simply is, and no external factors excuse this.

[–] brainwashed@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Of course I am comparing. Op stated Apple is the worst offender which only has meaning in comparison.