Gee...
If only someone had warned everyone that doing away with the bipartisan debate commission and letting the party's and CNN run everything was a shit idea...
this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
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Eh, the 2016 and 2020 debates didn’t do any better at challenging Trumps lies.
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Republicans have hammered on the "liberal bias" point for decades so that they can claim victimhood anytime they're subject to the slightest scrutiny. The whole of the media has to treat them with kid gloves or take a hit in the ratings, which is basically illegal due to fiduciary laws.
The whole political ecosystem of the US, not just government itself but the press and lobbying, just isn't built to handle the epidemic of bad-faith actors (mostly corporatist and on the right) we have today. Lobbying used to mean interest groups educating elected officials so they could make informed decisions, now it's just legalized bribery.
Meanwhile, all the MAGA trolls can do is focus on how bad Biden came off. Dude is a fossil, true- but I’d vote for a fossilized fossil of a fossilized fossil before I’d throw away a vote and allow America to be led by a fascist.
Also… everyone take note on how all the bots are out today trying to persuade everyone not to vote. This shit is fuel for them. Call them out!
VOTE LIKE LIVES DEPEND ON IT- BECAUSE THEY DO.
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Gish Gallop is a Catch 22: muted mics mean the opponent can't interrupt and fact check; no muted mics means constant interruption.
The Gisher needs to actually respect decorum for fact checking from moderators.
We need to not have Gish Gallop people in debates. But then we wouldn't have a debate, because the GQP can't fucking stop themselves.
The Gisher needs to actually respect decorum for fact checking from moderators.
Oh man. We are so far past that. It's positively tragic how far past that we are.
Yeah, sadly
Next time, the candidates should get wired up, and a team of fact-checkers should get buttons labeled "that was a lie", shocking the candidate ever harder the more experts agree.
It's done the way it is on purpose. The businesses running these (for-profit mega corps, not at all impartial), only benefit from Trump doing his thing.
We all know this right ?
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'the Milgram debate'
Approved.
We have a political environment that lacks credible independent commentators (e.g. Walter Cronkite), so anyone presenting themselves as independent who calls bullshit on a politico is immediately labeled as biased.
What mechanism do you think could overcome this and pull the mic plug to reduce the incentive to lie without immediately being vigorously attacked?
They will be vigorously attacked by the right regardless.
Telling the truth is simple. Conmen succeed only when people don’t tell the truth.
The corporate news media have painted themselves into a corner that only they can get themselves out of. They will need to make courageous choices, put the good of the country and public service first, and accept that a click-based-horserace is a horrible idea.
But they won't because there's no profit in that.
Well, that's the corner isn't it.
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The corporate news media doesn't exist to put the good of the country and public service first, it exists to make money, and it's making a lot of money; they're not about to fix what isn't broken just because the country - and the world as a whole - is falling apart.
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One of these days y'all are going to figure out that corporate news outlets like CNN want Trump to win
Look at the organization. Are they at risk in a Christo-fascist theocracy?
No?
Weird.
When we stop clutching pearls and understand that fascists want fascism we can know better what must be done. It works for all sorts of things. Racists like racism. Bad actors act badly.
People with a healthy amount of empathy will always give the benefit of doubt because they have a healthy amount of empathy. Stop listening to people's words, start watching how they behave.
The immediate attacks on Biden from the org makes me pretty certain that that is the case. Seemed like they had those loaded and ready to go.
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Why is trump not in prison right now? I thought he was convicted on thirty something counts of felonies a couple months ago.
Sentencing is on July 11th. He probably won't see prison time, but one can dream.
Is that normal? That doesn't sound normal. If I, a random nobody from nowherevill got convicted of thirty something felonies in a single trial, would my sentencing be multiple months later? I actually don't know, and that might be because I'm kindof an idiot, but this whole thing smells of bullshit.
If you're out on bail, you're typically allowed to be free until sentencing if you aren't a flight risk.The US justice system moves slow as hell, so this isn't uncommon. If he was a regular poor like us, though, and had to pay bail he couldn't afford, he'd have been jailed throughout the entire case.
It's actually pretty normal for someone with no priors to not serve time for what Trump was convicted of, yes.
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The microphone muting did nothing.
At one point Biden started talking over Trump so they turned his microphone back on.
Ah CNN. Why dare to hope, CNN? Why?
To be fair there's a pretty good chance he forgot the rules halfway through.
The I beat Medicare thing? That entire word salad leading up to that? I 100% believe he just completely fucking forgot what he was talking about.
Not a doubt in my fucking mind
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If facts mattered, Trump wouldn't be leading in the polls, let's be honest. Nothing CNN said to fact check would matter for those who need to hear it because they've already been indoctrinated to believe CNN won't be truthful anyway.
This entire debate was about optics: can Trump keep himself together, and can Biden ward off criticism of his senility? To Trump's credit, he outperformed. Biden did not. And since Biden volunteered this debate, this is on him.
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I'd love fact checking, but I can't see that working in real-time. Maybe with a backstage team running a banner across the screen?
In any case, all I wanted was the moderators to force them to stay on topic. No, once your rebuttal is up, shut up and answer the current question. Can't stay on topic? Muted.
I’d love fact checking, but I can’t see that working in real-time.
It works fine. There's a show on the BBC I watch called Question Time, and the moderator frequently calls out the guests when they're not being truthful or not telling the whole story.
Yeah when Americans see BBC interviewers checking the guests they're stunned. "It's . . . it's beautiful," they say. "We didn't know they could do that" they say, with a tear in their eye.
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We've been letting him lie all his life without consequence...why start now?
Something something fate of democracy? Heck I dunno, I just work here.
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