this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2024

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California says AT&T can't shut down copper DSL network (www.lightreading.com)

submitted 5 months ago by fne8w2ah@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 131 points 5 months ago (3 children)

This isn’t about internet. This is about landline telephone service and being able to call 911. For those that don’t remember, landline phones work even when the power is out. No big deal if you have a cell phone and service. Very big deal if you live in a mountainous region where you rely on WiFi at home due to bad phone signal and would have to get in a car to drive somewhere with service to get emergency help or, say, report a forest fire caused by power lines snapping.

In the landline era, AT&T agreed to be the provider of last resort and they didn’t do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They got something in return. And even if “superior” technology exists, it’s not superior for “last resort” situations. One day, maybe we’ll all have satellite internet as a fallback on our mobile devices and landlines really will be obsolete. But that day isn’t today.

[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago (2 children)

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[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

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[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

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[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

They literally get boners

[–] pirat@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Yeah, sign me up too... Would you please send it as a telefax on the landline?

[–] bluemellophone@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

This.

You’d be surprised how much of a place’s physical infrastructure depends on a physical line. Automated fire alerts for high rises, security alarms, remote access for gates and doors, backup phone connections. A lot of this still uses old physical lines because it is easy to fix and highly reliable.

Now consider the infrastructure needed for specialized services like EMS, police, secure and classified buildings, federal agencies, embassies, smart traffic signals. Shutting down a network like that has massive implications for anything in society that relies on it, which is well beyond your cell phone plan.

[–] librejoe@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Until fiber or celluar can have the same reliability as copper, then we can switch.

[–] Ravi 37 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Meanwhile in Germany: Houses still getting copper internet cables this year (and probably the next 10 too).

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 33 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thanks, Kohl.

Literally. For those who don't know it was Helmut Kohl (chancellor during the reunification) who stopped a 30-year project to lay fiber throughout Germany to instead favour copper wires to help his old pal Leo Kirch build up a private TV network to rival the mostly left leaning public broadcast. And I thought one of his family members owned a copper plant or so but I wasn't able to find an article about that.

[–] r_deckard@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago

Same in Australia. The libnats (right-leaning) broke the fibre-optic rollout by claiming it would be too expensive, and replaced it in non-metro areas with wireless, claiming 25Mbps was adequate. They didn't mention that slow internet would benefit the Murdoch -owned Foxtel satellite services. And here we are now with internet services worse than some poorer countries.

I chose Starlink because I will never get fibre optic, my only broadband option is geo-synch satellite, with speed and data caps, and 600ms latency.

[–] disconnectikacio@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

you can't expect more from T aka DT... Here in budapest i could only get copper cable T net, if the romanian (Digi) wouldn't give us optical cable (however orban already chased them away, so i expect worse, since orban's firm which bought their network, doubled the subscription price in 1 year).

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I remember when I had AT&T DSL for internet. I actually was able to be decent at PvP in Ultima Online because I didn't lag all over the place like I did with 56k dialup lol

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 7 points 5 months ago

Modern ADSL and VDSL can get you pretty far... But they don't hold a candle to fibre.

[–] librejoe@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

We need this law here in Canada. While they are NOT ATM shutting down copper POTS, they are no longer selling it to consumer's from the main companies. Some smaller ones will offer it, but if there is a problem with the SLAM in your area for DSL, you're told "deal with speeds or switch to copper cable or fiber". They will not replace the SLAMs

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

FYI Verizon is ending their copper phone land lines in PA

[–] debounced@kbin.run 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

didn't Verizon overbuild most, if not all, of the area with FiOS? not sure how they're getting away with it in the rural regions unless there are still CLECs operating. All this to say... fiber still has the issue of power outages and nonfunctioning customer backup batteries in the ONTs and I vaguely remember some drama over Verizon not offering replacement batteries or providing backups at all.

[–] dukethorion@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

FIOS doesn't cover any county that doesn't have a major city in it. That excludes about half the state's population.

[+] shortwavesurfer@monero.town -13 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Honestly, it might be worth doing a cost-benefit analysis as to what kind of finds they might get if they just said fuck you and did it anyway. The price of fixed wireless is much lower since you just have to run the fiber to a tower and make sure that that tower has backup power.

[–] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If they don't want to maintain the copper lines, they can always replace them with fiber.

[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 4 points 5 months ago

Not to mention, fiber is cheaper than copper at this point.

Telecoms are just lazy and don't want to string up new lines.

[–] unexpectedteapot@lemmy.ml 17 points 5 months ago

Pretty sure the Californian authority is not a copper DSL religious cult. If you actually read the article, the regulations they are citing are built for vulnerable communities to protect them from for-profit utility providers from cutting them off by shutting down old but only available way to provide internet to the people.

Wireless is not a fix-all solution, and can be unreliable and bandwidth limited for dense areas.

This message is sent to you by someone whose utility provider decided to do exactly what you wish and now is stuck with wireless towers that completely go down if there's any heightened usage (tourism, people moving in, and so on) or pretty much randomly (and since the infrastructure is not built yet, the company's nearest branch is nowhere near me), if you move too quickly, go to a room the tower doesn't properly reach (yes can be fixed, but now the burden of cost is on the person not the company), and many more issues that arise when 'wireless towers' are provided instead of actual internet cables that might be slower, older and more expensive for the provider but much more reliable, stable and actually working most of the time.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 months ago

Wireless as the only option is a fucking joke.

[–] undefined@links.hackliberty.org 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I barely want to use WiFi at home let alone send it to a tower far away. This reminds me of those stupid 5G home internet plans you can get — why on earth would I want to add so much latency to my internet connection?

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 1 points 5 months ago

Actually, I used one of those 5G home internet plans when I used to live in an apartment and they kept raising my rates on God awfully bad cable. And so I told them to shove it. It actually worked out really well. I was a little bit surprised because I had heard that wireless ISPs were not very good.