this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2024
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[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Usually I'm extremely sympathetic of Brexit woes considering the slim majority, lying Leave campaign, and considering the vote happened immediately after the EU refugee crisis where anti-EU sentiment was at a high all over the union.

I also usually remind the people that call for blood that, at the time, countries like France, Italy, Czechia, Austria, the Netherlands, Greece, and others had the same level or higher anti-EU sentiment. That people are lucky only the UK's leadership was stupid enough to allow the vote to happen when it did, and that the UK's population aren't any more guilty or deserving of punishment than a slew of other European populations.

But UK farmers? Nah. These people are business owners who should be expected to do their research. These people should've known that cutting ties with the strictest food market on Earth and opening the floodgates to food from elsewhere would damage their business. They voted for Brexit overwhelmingly. I have much less sympathy for these people.

The positive is that the Tories are heading for an electoral catastrophe. And farmers hold immense sway for the Tories in a way they don't with Labour.

[–] JoBo@feddit.uk 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] AlexS@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

Interesting piece.

A poll in early 2016, conducted by the University of Exeter, found that 46 per cent of the farmers they questioned said the interests of British agriculture would be best served by the UK remaining in the EU, while only 36 per cent indicated it would be better to leave.

Another poll a few days before the referendum vote found that 38 per cent wanted to remain, 34 per cent to leave and 28 per cent were undecided.

Two polls, one in December 2016 and one in December 2017, both with near identical results found that among the farmers who responded, 53 per cent voted to leave, 45 per cent voted to remain and 2 per cent did not vote.

[–] geissi@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

at the time, countries like France, Italy, Czechia, Austria, the Netherlands, Greece, and others had the same level or higher anti-EU sentiment

I would very much doubt that, seeing as I've never heard of any significant leave campaign in any of these countries let alone any actual legislative move to do so.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are you serious? You've never heard of, for example, France's national front party, who was the their largest party in the EU parliament, headed by Marine Le Pen, and wanted to leave the EU?

Eurosceptic movements were huge all across the union, particularly after the refugee crisis. It's only after Brexit that these movements have fizzled out.

[–] geissi@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm not saying that there aren't other eurosceptic, I just don't agree that they were at "the same level or higher" than in the UK.
As far as I'm aware, France has not left the EU indicating to me that euroscepticism in France has in fact never reached the same level as in the UK.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

As I stated, the UK ended up being the only one to leave because the others didn't hold referendums.

Your assertion that the UK being the only country to leave means it's the only country that was very Eurosceptic is deeply flawed.

If every country in the EU had held a referendum in 2016, more would've left. The UK wasn't unique in its views on the EU.

Cameron called for the referendum in an attempt to stamp out UKIP, who were weaponising the UK's stupid FPTP voting system. He reasoned that by calling a referendum and winning, UKIP support would collapse, those right wing voters would go back to voting Conservative, the right wing vote wouldn't be split, and they'd be able to stave off Labour, who wouldn't benefit from a splintered right wing vote.

[–] geissi@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

I mean, it was a cheap throwaway comment but since personal impressions are apparently the most important discussion point today:

My personal opinion is that the very fact that the UK had a referendum and did leave makes their Euroscepticism more real than bad polling results the EU may have had in other countries where that did not happen.

[–] franglais@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Just because you haven't heard about it, doesn't mean it's not the case, jeez pull your head out your arse. France had a leave referendum too, and the majority voted leave, but they had politicians who were smart enough to ignore the results.

[–] geissi@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Why, thank you for your polite way of providing missing information to others.
You certainly make participating in this community an enjoyable experience.

[–] Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

And their disposition is counter to the experience you provide with posts derived from your ignorance and myopic assumptions? Is it really enjoyable to see misinformed posts all day long?

[–] geissi@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

their disposition is counter to the experience you provide

I had inferred that from the post I replied to stating something that I had a different impression of. It's almost as if that was the very reason to reply in the first place.

ignorance and myopic assumptions? Is it really enjoyable

To be derided for minor disagreements?
I suppose it must be. Otherwise the level of discourse here could be considered somewhat unfriendly

[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.

[–] Amputret@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If only someone had told them that this exact outcome would happen.

[–] soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The problem was someone else also told them this exact outcome wouldn't happen.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The problem is that the person who told them this was Boris Johnson who was about as believable as the devil. So it's still on them.

[–] soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)
[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

If the bus were* true

When using be in an if clause for an unreal conditional sentence, always conjugate it as were, no matter what the subject is. Even if the subject is first-person singular (I) or third-person singular (he, she, or it), still use were with an if clause in unreal conditional sentences.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/conditional-sentences-was-instead-of-were/

[–] Gamoc@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but only one of these two parties was a pathological liar.

[–] soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The problem is how do you prove the other guy is a liar when he is saying you're a liar?

Yup, I just described how the british political system is played.

[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

Perhaps one of the two being a massive cunt is an indication

[–] tal@lemmy.today 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"They negotiated trade deals which literally see us slaughtered," she continued. "They're the worst trade deals in the world."

I mean, the UK is a net food importer. Trade deals that lower the bar to obtain agricultural output are a plus for the UK, in aggregate. That was one of the few real arguments you could make, that the UK could lower the barriers to agricultural imports, whereas in general, it was hard to do in the EU.

Doing so is bad for British farmers, sure, that's zero-sum insofar as it's just a transfer of wealth between British people eating food and farmers, but they permit leveraging comparative advantage in other countries, so you get economic efficiency gains.

Like, the one group of economists that I saw that was arguing for Brexit was led by an economist specifically arguing on the point that it'd permit the UK lower barriers to agricultural imports more than the European Union Customs Union would permit for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Minford

A confirmed eurosceptic, he is a supporter of the Better Off Out campaign to leave the European Union because he believes that the net economic costs to Britain of its policies are substantial. He argues that they are in most respects contrary to free market principles and that British citizens had no power to alter them.[25] In 2016, Minford was a notable member of the Economists for Brexit group which supported the referendum campaign for the UK to leave the European Union.[26] He believes that Brexit could increase GDP by 6.8%,[27][28] and could reduce prices for British consumers.[29]

I mean, I'm American, and I still went out and read his papers to see what people were arguing on both sides. If I were a British farmer and was thinking about Brexit and where I want my country to go and the impact it might have on my business, I'd damn well read what the material being put out is.

I was skeptical that Minford is right that when you take into account all the pros and cons into account, that the UK is better-off out, but I don't dispute that he's right on being able to lower barriers to agricultural trade trade is more-favorable to the UK; if the UK could take that in isolation but otherwise be in the EU, sure, it'd be better-off. And what the UK is doing now is nothing compared to what he wanted to do -- he was arguing for, in Brexit, unilateral elimination of all British import tariffs. You think that British farmers are seeing disruption under a few trade deals with major agricultural exporters, that'd be a heck of a lot more disruptive.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

it’d permit the UK lower barriers to agricultural imports more than the European Union Customs Union would permit for.

Is this still about the shitty US chlorinated chicken that we've already had a long-ass trade war about?

[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

You don't want chlorine in your food? Why do you hate freedom? Are you a communist?

  • Brexiteers, probably