Why is Cloudflare so bad?
this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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Thank you for the amazing job, as always! Cloudflare is a solid solution :)
Sure but maybe something less centralized/proprietary would be preferable
That's easier said than done, DDoS mitigation requires a large amount of servers that are only really useful to persist an active DDoS attack. It's why everyone uses Cloudflare, because of the amount of customers they serve there's pretty much always an active attack to fend off. Decentralization wouldn't work great for it because you would have to trust every decentralized node not to perform man in the middle attacks. But if you know of any such solution I'd love to hear it.
Yeah I see the issue but on the other side you would get a more robust network which could also be incentivised by some sort of underlying blockchain technology. The man in the middle attack could also be mitigated on a technical level.
Oh man, you lost me at blockchain.
Such as?
Nothing. DDoS mitigation is inherently an ISP or someone like cloudflare. You will not have success against anybody who knows what they are doing without their help.
This is bullshit. Just take this as an example. I found it with one quick search and there are plenty more. Perhaps we should broaden our horizons a little rather than entrusting everything to some corpos.
They lost me at building a CDN on top of a blockchain. Why?
It's rather the other way round. Complement a distributed CDN with a blockchain.
My dude, I think you're not super familiar with these technologies.
The most basic form of a content delivery network is a set of globally distributed servers that replicate content from a source of truth and a network to direct traffic to the closest server with a valid replica. So the cost here is servers.
With Lemmy, this problem is solved by eliminating the need for individuals to own many servers and a lack of need for trust between servers. The effort and cost is distributed among individual humans, making it manageable.
Now, if you're familiar with blockchain, you probably perked up when you heard "lack of need for trust." That's what the blockchain was built for! Perfect fit, right? Ehh, not so much.
There's two problems: acting as a proxy for content requires trust, and some single service needs to direct clients to the right local server. If I can arbitrarily join some network of serving content, I can always tell other servers in the network that I'm serving what they ask... and then serve ads. There's no (reasonable and fast) way for the network to verify that I'm serving the correct content to every client. There's no way to avoid the need for trust. Additionally, DNS, which directs you from mysite.com to 120.1.2.1, isn't intelligent. It can't direct clients to a geographically (or route-efficient, fucking ISPs) local IP. The best it can do is pick a random one from the pool. So when you go to lemmy.world, DNS can't pick the correct server for you. So some set of servers needs to do the logic to select which local server to actually get content from. Those servers need to be central for the whole content delivery network.
This company you linked is just another company using "blockchain" to get investment money. If you read through their page to get a cursory understanding of how things work, an easy question comes up: what is the purpose of media tokens? Sure, maybe you can buy CDN time with it, but when you pay that token to someone providing compute... what do they do with that token? It's worthless, just like crypto currency. Fucking scams. All that said, blockchain is a super, super interesting technology. There's just very, very few suitable applications of it.
I've worked in IT for about 12 years now. Everything from infrastructure monitoring to data analysis to data engineering to DevOps to backend engineering to product management. I've worked with systems serving tens of users and tens of millions of users. Happy to answer any questions. I love this shit.
If someone could figure out a trustless, decentralized way to implement a CDN, I'd eat that up in a second, but with my current understanding of the internet and available technologies, I don't see a way it can work. At least, not with making every web page take >3s to load, which would absolutely kill websites.
I could a agree with the first part and it does not contradict with the idea of a distributed network for content saving. Think about it this way. Instead of one big local server farm you have multiple small local servers which together form a global network. Now we come to the blockchain. As you pointed out you get these tokens for the CDN time the storage or more generally the server operation costs. Of course the blockchain these tokens are hosted on (Solana) do have to be trustworthy (which in this case they may not be. I don't like solana that much either). But does that mean that this could not be achieved? It seems logical to me that with a distributed storage and computing network something like this could be achieved very efficiently and cheaply. Heck I'm using a decentralized VPN right now that works with the same principles I mentioned. Or take the Helium network for example? Don't you see the potential there? Like with all technology these things have to mature but with my understanding they are pretty much doable.
Well for now we'll have to stick around with cloudflare. I'd just would like to see something managed by a decentralized network. I don't know if it exists, it's more of a sentiment or a general idea.
I think the biggest problem with such services is that they require lots of money to run which means that any well-meaning effort will eventually end up becoming a commercial service.
...and that's where the blockchain comes in. This means that the individual contributions of the node operators can be directly recorded and compensated adequately.
β¦and thatβs where the blockchain comes in.
Sure.
Tell me a good argument why not? How would you reward those people that contribute to said netowork?
Tell me a good argument why not?
The downsides of blockchain / cryptocurrency are well documented at this point.
Yeah sure like with centralized solutions and big corpos too. What kind of argument is that?
I hope lemmy.world can avoid using Cloudflare which goes against the spirit of Fediverse as it's just an objectively evil company.
Can you give some insight to this?
There are thousands of reasons from centralizing internet, abusing their market power, implementing barriers on web automation that can only be bypassed by the priviledged to fingerprinting and tracking users across the whole internet. It's a major for-profit market capture corporation - it's evil by design.
Yeah, they're not someone I'd choose to give money or support to. Pretty disappointed it has come to this tbh.