this post was submitted on 05 May 2025
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/0 Governance

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Ahoy me hearties!

To run alongside the discussion on the simplified Golden Rules for the instance, I decided to post a separate proposal for a single rule addition.

The proposed rule is: Off topic comments and downvote trolling to protest the use of genAI images is not permitted in our communities.


Edit2: The community feedback has been strongly positive, thanks for all your feedback. Notably, quite a few folks would like it to be more generic, to cater for future scenarios as well. So taking that into account, and adding the rationale for the change, I came up with:

To protect our communities, community members and mods from abuse: no comment trolling, dogpiling, or downvote trolling is allowed.

I hope that works for most folks, and please feel free to leave more comments if you can suggest an improved wording. I do read them all.


It would only apply to communities where GenAI art is not disallowed by the community rules, so mods can opt in or out.

Since the rule will likely attract some pushback from the anti-GenAI crowd, I wanted to run this proposal as a member vote to confirm we have broad support.

Exhibit 1 - dbzer0 Main Sidebar for context

Be Weird, Download a Car, Generate Art, Screw Copyrights

Communities about Anarchism, Generative AI, Copylefts, Neurodivergence, Filesharing, and Free Software.

Our instance has been associated with genAI art since its inception, because the founding admin, db0, has also spent years developing and maintaining FOSS Projects like AI Horde (a crowdsourced distributed cluster of image generation workers and text generation workers) and Haidra.

We have a number of popular genAI communities on our instance including:

Exhibit 2 - The Problem

This is the recent experience of one of our community mods:

"From the moment I started the [redacted] community here people have been brigading it trying to suppress it, and had I not had the sense to ban the droves of anti-AI trolls who come to downvote it into oblivion. They probably would be continuing to do so in insanely large volume. A lot of the users who come to downvote do so with empty no content accounts, but a lot are also trolls from the !fuck_AI@lemmy.world community. I’ve also received a fair amount of harassment including threats and bad faith accusations from it like people saying I’m a pedophile or saying I’m pretending to be nonbinary over the fact that I like and use genAI. Really awful behavior that has no place on this instance of this community."

This sort of thing is hateful and should not have to be tolerated by our users. Let's call it what it is: bullying and harassment.

Exhibit 3 - Escalating Problems

If you take look at this post from today in the lighthearted Lefty Memes community, it's a total shit show of offtopic comments. I'm not going to re-litigate the whole experience here since there is a YPTB post about it here.

This sort of brigading is completely unwarranted and I regard it as hostile bullying behaviour towards our community members and moderators. It completely derails the comments and goes way off topic for the community. Even after repeatedly asking these users to open a meta post about the issues they clearly wanted to talk about, instead of brigading the comments, I was mostly ignored and eventually pretty much gave up on trying to moderate the post.

Conclusion

In summary, as an admin on this instance I've noticed a significant uptick in the amount and volume of trolling in our communities by this group of users. I'd like to make sure we have this rule in place so that we can continue to effectively moderate the instance for the enjoyment of our community members, and to protect our moderators and admins from abuse.

Thank you for your consideration. If you have any suggestions to improve the rule, or thoughts on the topic you wish to share, then please do so in the comments.

Edit: for detailed voting information see this post. But in summary, please upvote if you support the rule addition or downvote if you are opposed.

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[–] div0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 14 minutes ago) (1 children)

Acknowledged governance topic opened by https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/flatworm7591 Early Bird: a parrot, orangered colors Jolly Roger: an icon of pirate jolly roger skull wearing a hat, in orange-red, black and white colors A book with a loaf of bread in the cover  in orange-red, black and white colors Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors First Mate: a pirate ship's steering wheel, orangered color

This is a simple majority vote. The current tally is as follows:

  • For: MVP: a star icon, in orange-red, black and white colors (2), Vouched: a minimalist compass icon. Orangered color (8), Powder Monkey: An icon of powder barrel in orange-red, black and white colors (1), Salty Dog: An icon of two crossed cutlasses with a skull in the center in orange-red, black and white colors (2), Threadiverse Enjoyer: An icon of a doubloon with a black hole in the center in orange-red, black and white colors (1), First Mate: a pirate ship's steering wheel, orangered color (4), Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors (2)
  • Against: Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors
  • Local Community: +0.4
  • Outsider sentiment: Positive
  • Total: +19.4
  • Percentage: 95.00%

This vote will complete in 4 days


Reminder that this is a pilot process and results of voting are not set in stone.

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[–] FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

How are we defining downvote trolling? This is starting to sound like the rule changes at Reddit.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

The word "trolling" is doing all the work in that phrase. Examples would be a user mass downvoting posts in a comm; someone downvoting every new post in a comm; or votes from vote manipulation accounts/bots. To be honest, it's not like we spend a lot of time looking at voting patterns unless a specific report is made by a mod or user about being targeted by such activity, and there is some clear evidence of a harassment/suppression campaign.

[–] FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 hours ago

Ah, that’s pretty fair then.

[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 14 hours ago

yeah it’s pretty hard to vote for an undefined term.
if it’s people subscribing to a community for the sole purpose of downvoting everything, that would feel like downvote trolling… that or brigading….
if you’re just scrolling through All or something and see stuff you don’t like and downvote, that seems okay.
(personally i just block communities i completely hate and never worry about them again).

[–] a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I am for the rule change.

Gen AI is a great invention. That doesn't mean i cannot be critical of how it gets shoved into spaces where it doesn't belong, because a shitton of money get injected in it by venture capitalists in their neverending search for the next big thing.

But that's not what's happening here, where people are using (local) models to create images to enjoy and to be creative and not data centers wrongly answering inane questions.

The current models are snapshots of the current human culture, and should belong to all of us. i don't think it's fair to come here and behave like a drunk in a dive bar because they suddendly became friendly with rights holders (who have tried to fuck over single users downloading some shitty pop songs with life destroying lawsuits)

P.S.: I am a big piracy advocate, since i have been strapped for cash for my whole life and i would have been excluded from a lot of society and culture if it weren't for the pirate hat. I therefore understand that current models would have been prohibitively expensive to create when taking every single copyright claim into consideration. I also think that for future models there should be a mechanism to make sure that creators get their fair share and the possibility to opt out if they really do not want to be included.

[–] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 20 hours ago

I heartily agree with your comment and it's points. Your phrasing and insight into the topic is a boon!

Seriously though, you nailed many of the thoughts I've had about this far better than my own attempts at turning them into language.

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[–] PixelatedCleric@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I say yeah, it's the most sanity-inducing option to have both communities coexist.

[–] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Disagree. Rule is too narrow- make it broader about brigading and not AI specific.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 22 hours ago

I've rewritten the proposed rule at the top of the post, if you want to check it out.

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[–] VolumetricShitCompressor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Personally, as an artist and also in regards to sustainability for example, I'm very AI-sceptic, but I get that this instance is pro AI, so I think it's a fair point. I can disagree but don't need to shove my opinion into dedicated AI communites/instances.

I'm just in for the other topics like foss and copylefts to name a few, if anyone wonders why I'm even here with my account.

[–] flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

One thing I've noticed is no one is judging anybody for being here. It makes sense that not everybody is everything.

Nice to see this expressed, whether we knew it all along or not.

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