this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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Men's Liberation

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I'm a trans man. I didn't realize how broken men are (newsweek.com)
submitted 1 year ago by spaduf@slrpnk.net to c/mensliberation@lemmy.ca
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[–] NathanielThomas@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting perspective. It would be really mind-blowing to see the other side of the gender, even though I have no interest in being trans.

One thing I will add to this article is that men are also viewed as little more than bank machines after divorce. People always have the utmost sympathy for any mother who is separated from her children, even if only for a few days. Movie plots can revolve around mothers finding their lost children and being reunited. But for men? We're only the providers, the ones who pay the child support.

I lost my kids (not legally, just boring old classic parental alienation) six years ago following the divorce. Nobody cares, because I'm just a man. Not even my own father cares. He happily continues to see his grandkids because he doesn't want to "take sides." None of my cousins or other parts of my family care either. So long as I'm paying my "support." And I can't complain about it on social media because I'm a man. I'm a stoic. Boys don't cry, remember?

The lack of emotional support for men mentioned in the article is another thing that really exacerbates divorces and leads to suicides. I do feel like if I were the type of person to contemplate suicide (I'm not), I would have definitely done it when my ex took my kids from me. And there would have been no male friends to pull me back from the edge. Those friendships are, to quote the author, superficial to a large degree, or even the ones that aren't are men who are now focused heavily on their own families and wives.

I mean, it's also true all the other stuff about the male privilege and feeling safe and the good things that come with being a man. But it's nice to see the perspective of how we lack emotional support and we're expected to grit our teeth and "walk it off."

[–] FatalValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hope I'm not intruding on men's spaces here as a transwoman,

But after my transition that was one of the biggest, most drastic contrasts between the two binary gender's social dynamics. Men just don't get to talk about their feelings- whether it stems from homophobia or misogyny, men are generally seen as an island to themselves and if you display otherwise, it is seen as a weakness worthy of admonition and disrespect. There is still a societal expectation that men are supposed to be stoic, stable providers while women are increasingly allowed liberation. Hard fought, and rightly so but what's the point of "equality" if we don't lift everyone up to the same standards?

I have never felt more emotional support in my entire life than when I stepped into women's spaces, seen as a woman. This just isn't fair or right, regardless of the other privelages men may have. Justice is for everyone, not just minorities.

Yet, it is up to men to decide this. Yes, women can and should support you, but remember who has the most power to change these standards. Women didn't have to demand other women for suffrage, they had to demand it from men. It is the same here for emotional liberation.

*An edit for an addendum: I hope nobody reads this feeling that I'm blaming men, or being accusational. I want to clarify that I believe men do have the power to change this culture of emotional isolationism but it will require self-reflection, effort and a strong demand from oneself and other men to be willing to seek liberation- at the risk of what comes with shaking up the status quo.

[–] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m a white, cis, heterosexual American male. I’m supposed to be privileged in every way, feel endlessly guilty over things I cannot control and try not to perpetuate, and never, ever dare suggest any kind of dissatisfaction with my situation.

I wouldn’t know how to express my feelings the way the author has. I’d feel like a misogynistic neckbeard, callous racist, or ungrateful whiner. If, somehow, I didn’t feel these things, someone would quickly, loudly, and condescendingly remind me that I should. They’d then be applauded for putting me in my place.

I can’t thank the author enough for writing this article.

[–] homoludens@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m supposed to be privileged in every way, feel endlessly guilty over things I cannot control and try not to perpetuate, and never, ever dare suggest any kind of dissatisfaction with my situation.

Why are you supposed to e.g. "feel endlessly guilty over things you cannot control"?

[–] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People who share some of my characteristics have historically done, and are currently doing, absolutely horrible things. Empathy with the victims isn’t enough for some. I’m part of the problem simply by being born, until I prove otherwise.

I can’t blame people who feel some suspicion and resentment, either. It’s justified.

[–] homoludens@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I’m part of the problem simply by being born, until I prove otherwise.

Again: who is saying that? I'm sure there are some people who do, but in my experience that's a really tiny minority. And the majority of texts I read about e.g. (male) privilege explicitly state that being privileged does not mean you're guilty or a bad person.

I can’t blame people who feel some suspicion and resentment, either. It’s justified.

I mean yeah, I can understand why a women might prefer to walk on the other side of the street from me at night. It hurts of course, but I understand it. That doesn't mean I need to feel guilty about it though.

[–] Solemn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honest question, what're your thoughts on the racial reparations discussion? I was surprised to hear that it exists tbh, mostly cause of how impossible it seems as a target. But my understanding is that there are people getting some real attention saying that white people should give enough money that they can't pay their bills to make up for their privilege.

[–] homoludens@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

I haven't heard of it. In Germany there is some discussion about reparations for societies colonized by Germany, the genocides against the Herero and Namaqa and every once about further reparations for the Nazi crimes - all of which make a lot of sense to me, especially the former two as they haven't received any significant reparations that I know of.

[–] Nelots@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The comments at the bottom of the article though... I really hate people sometimes.

[–] agissilver@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oof they are awful, and indicative of the issues raised in the article. So many of the men commenting are defending the "man" stereotype as "natural", and ignoring that men have issues existing in society probably because of the pressures of that stereotype. Nobody wants men to feel isolated and lonely and kill themselves 4x as much. I don't think that's a "natural" part of being a man. At least it doesn't have to be.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

And than they turn around and blame feminism for all the problems men face.

[–] simplecyphers@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

TIL my friendships with my bros are about 5x healthier than average.

I read this thought it sounded super melodramatic and exaggerated. I guess it’s just more rare to have deep friendships with the boys. Looking back it got me thinking that I might be the weird one with friends that have deep conversations and know/worry about the others mental health.

So i guess, to any guys that read this and felt like it could have been written about them: go out on a limb and talk to your friends. Chances are they want/need a more meaningful friendship too. They are also probably similarly apprehensive about opening up.

[–] homoludens@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

I try to do that, but somehow it's magnitudes harder to talk to men and I can't figure out why. I'm probably already more open about how I feel than most men (at least in part because of the communities I chose to be part of, therapies, age, ...), but opening up to women (or non-binary persons) feels way more natural and easy for me and I don't even know if that's because other men's reaction to these topics are somehow subtly different (even with men who are also rather open) or because of some inhibitions on my behalf (e.g. not feeling safe around them because of bad experiences or because of an absent father figure or...).

[–] Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Men are also different from women. Not just physically but mentally. Part of the problem the writer had was not understanding how male friendships work and expecting a mirror of female friendships. Certainly it can be lonelier as a man but in some ways it's just the way we are.

You ain't never had a friend.

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

in some ways it's just the way we are.

Is it? What makes you think that our loneliness is inherent to us? How is it inherent to us?

[–] Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm just saying that men in general have a much easier time being alone. I don't think we should always be alone, but more men than women have the ability to be solitary and happy at the same time.

[–] girlfreddy@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What if being solitary and happy has zero foundation in being a "man" but comes about from being rejected by society as the man one is?

[–] Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You do realize half of society is men right?

[–] girlfreddy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

And the other 50% is women, some of whom are solitary and happy because we don't fit society's idea of what a woman should be.

Sit down.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Men started treating me like their guy friends, which was exactly what I wanted. What I didn't know is that male friendships aren't as deep.

That is also my experience - never could emotionally open or connect to my male friends. While (from time where I learned it) not having the same problem with women in relationships or friendship. I feel always a bit on guard with other men, always a bit performing. But at the same time I never made an negative experience with opening up being emotionally vulnerable.

[–] Borkingheck@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kind of have to take the first step. If you trust one of your mates, give em a hug, text em out of the blue and thank em for being a mate etc.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

The theoretical steps are rather clear, it's just a different "vibe" I have with men and women (therefore I guess most of my friends are women) - sure in the end I just need start doing it, but as with all emotional things it's easier said then done.

[–] Ironfist@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

well, women also get more attention therefor they are less lonely. Just look at dating apps: women get flooded with likes and messages, but men... good luck getting a like and if you get one, good luck getting a conversation where you are not the only one putting some effort.

[–] Crimsonknee@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Homie, this is quite a bad take particularly in the face of the article in question. One of the biggest things the author was talking about wasn't quantity of relationships, but quality of relationships. Having first conversations with 50 odd men is not going to produce a quality relationship in which you can talk about significant worries in life, or work through feelings that are causing distress.

[–] Ironfist@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but they dont get messages from only 50 year old men, do they? they get messages from a full spectrum of men. The only thing left to do is to choose. When you get to choose and if you know what to look for, you end up finding quality. When you dont get to choose, you either settle down or end up alone. Its offer and demand.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

If you have a close female friend, just ask her to show you some highlight of dating app messages. Seriously a good way to start doubting the intelligence of human specie as a whole.