this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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German government wants to let 16-year-olds vote – DW – 06/05/2023 (www.dw.com)
submitted 1 year ago by Mica@feddit.de to c/germany@feddit.de
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What do you think? Personally I'm all for it. I think it's important to have as many young people involved in politics to counteract the old majority.

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[–] agrammatic@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

There's not a lot of good arguments against lowering the voter age limit if you try to debate this policy in a way that is agnostic of which parties one thinks will benefit.

Same but reverse about the other election reform from this government - if it wasn't for CSU and the Left being the biggest losers of that reform, I don't think many would agree that it's democratic to just toss out the votes of one election (direct mandate) based on the outcome of a separate election (proportional vote).

In short: When you are party-agnostic: 16+ vote is okay, the hasty patch for the parliament size is not.

[–] ErgodicTangle@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Throwing out all of the direct mandate votes would be democratic again, though.

[–] agrammatic@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

It's definitely a better option than the current reform.

[–] Mica@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the main argument is that 16 y.o. are old enought to work and pay taxes and social contributions. So they should be able to vote. Also The voting age is 16 in many states. The maturity argument is really hard, as it depends so much on the individual. I think 16 year olds generelly possess the same mental capacity to understand party policies and have enough knowledge of how the government system works to be able to vote.

[–] agrammatic@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In fact, I find any argument that relies on the "maturity" or "capacity" of the voter extremely suspicious. There are people even today that genuinely believe that franchise must be restricted by means of literacy/mental capacity tests (transparent attempts to disenfranchise political opponents, be it conservatives fearing a more progressive youth or progressives fearing a more conservative older population).

The argument of relevance/degree of exposure to political decisions is indeed much better, than even going doing the maturity rabbit hole and trying to argue for a lower voter age that way.

[–] Mica@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Oh I agree. I personally think there should be as fee restricitions to vote as possible. I think that lowering the age restrictions, and thus allowing more people to vote is a huge win for democracy.

[–] Grey08@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At this point in time we also could get ChatGPT manage this land… I don’t think it would make a difference to lower the age. The „babyboomer“ are way more active in the voting than the younger generation :s So yes pleas lower the age to vote, also we need a maximum age for the Parlament!

[–] Leon@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, let a language model decide politics, and ignore a few percent of potential voting power. I'd laugh if I didn't suspect you were serious.

[–] Grey08@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The first part isn't serious you're right. The rest of it is. I don't thing it would make a big different to lower the voting age in the outcome. And i don't think it is a good idea, i remember my first voting i had no idea what to vote so i have vote "the lesser worst option" that i know to that time. It has to change more than the voting age in this system to work properly again...

[–] Leon@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

My situation was the same as yours, but I think it would have been like that no matter what age. I'm not sure it's a good idea either, but fact is there are kids who're politically active and can't vote, and that seems a little silly. Democracy's whole thing is that it doesn't exclude.

[–] Undertaker@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

To be clear, a two-thirds majority would be needed. There is no consense for this, so the governing coalition can wish whatever they want. Especially the CDU (and CSU) does not want this change, because most of the young people do not want to vote vor right-wing conservarives (in U.S. you would call it simply conservative) and thus the CDU would lose percentages. But at least the CDU vor AFD is needed and both will not agree.

[–] Mica@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

unfortunatly the afd is very popular amongst young people. Especially young men in the east.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

young man in this case is mostly the 25-35 age braket

[–] Mica@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Nope. I was referring to the results of the "under 18 elections", which is basically a survey of who minors would vote for on the election days.

[–] agrammatic@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

But doesn't polling and alternative votes actually find that CDU polls reasonably well with the under-18s? Not at the same degree as their grandparents, but it's not a stark difference either.

[–] Gecko@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Coming from Austria where the voting age is 16 I have to say I'm surprised to find out it isn't the same in Germany.

[–] Mica@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

It actually is on many state and city levels. Which kinda makes it hard to argue that voting on a federal level requires more maturity...

[–] dummye@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The idea of myself at 16 voting terrifies me. I was basically a communist back then. I think you should let younger people (under 20) vote, ONLY if they have jobs and pay taxes. If they don't pay tax and are still living with mommy and daddy, they don't know what the real world is like.

I think this will be a huge win, only for virtue signalling politics, current trend or reactionary politics,, or ideas pushed by teachers.

[–] kaffeebohne@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It´s important to keep in mind that they don´t want this out of the goodness of their hearts but because young people are their target demographic.

When i was around 16 i would´ve considered this the best idea ever tho.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

It being their target demographic is tangential, not the point.

You gain other rights and obligations before the law when you turn 16. When the law recognizes your decision-making capability, why would it not allow you to vote?

Youth has become more mature earlier. Many 16-year-olds are interested and engaged, some take initiative and are politically or socially active. Denying them the right to vote is questionable when there's no clear arguments to do so.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

i used to think it was a bad idea, because i know how much learning and growing up 16 years old still need to do. then i grew older and realized how many adults by age never did that.

Also the target semographic argument only works mildly for the green party. The social democrats are as much of a retiree party as the conservatives ans the liberal party only advertises to young people on tiktok and instagram, but their target audience is 30+ multimillionaires driving Porsches

[–] Andy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's fine in theory. However, like the other commenter mentioned, it might not be with the best intentions. Young voters, like older voters, tend to be easier to manipulate.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Is that actually the case? What do you base that on?

I can see it for younger than 16. But I'm skeptical 16 is much different from 18 or 21. Maybe no different from even older.