On one side nazis on the other religious fundamentalists - they deserve each other.
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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Where are the Nazis here?
Weren't it some nazis burning Koran? Who else would do something this pointless?
Just like the last time it's Salwan Momika, a refugee from Iraq who is burning the Korans.
Is he a nazi? Or what is his point? Is he just into burning books?
Not sure why he's doing it but he's not a nazi.
If you are not sure, how do you know?
Doesnβt Sweden have anti-discrimination/anti-Nazi laws or something like that? Why is a demonstration like that legal?
Burning a Quran shouldn't be a part of a peaceful protest and has nothing to do with Sweden being blocked from joining NATO by Turkey.
Why would you need an anti-something for a book burning? I didn't know about this book burning event, but this had one purpose from the beginning and they fell for it. They want to show the "religion of peace" is not so peaceful so it works wonders, that's what they are trying to stir and to bring it into conversation.
If no muslim reacted aggressively or even responded to this, there wouldn't be a second book burning. And the person doing this would be labeled crazy or something like that buuuut religious people are so easy to trigger so yeah.
Many Muslims don't give a shit. Provoking poor uneducated people from war-torn countries unsuprisingly does not give you cozy wholesome responses.
It is naive to believe that a Quran burning is simply a "social experiment". People who passionately support the book burning are obviously hating Muslims passionately as well.
The burning is in Sweden, not Iraq. These poor people only know about it because they're informed and agitated by religious leaders profiting from this violence. Mobs in Iraq cannot and should not determine the law in Sweden, I think we can all agree on that.
Muslims in Sweden probably don't love this move either.
Should Swedes also support demonstrations, where Muslim Swedes burn Bibles, Torahs, LGBTIQ+ flags etc, as long as they cite "freedom of speech" and or wanting to do a "social experiment" as their primary motivation?
It's not about supporting. Swedish officials have been condemning these acts. It's about allowing it or not and if not, on which basis? Geopolitics is not the rule of the land... and shouldn't be. People manipulating mobs against Sweden know all this and still do it, they're the ones at fault here.
I'm not saying that this demonstration should be banned, because people in Iraq got aggressive.
I'm saying that this demonstration should be banned, because this demonstration goes against modern Swedish values and laws. Being openly hostile towards certain religious minorities and ethnicities is not something Swedish authorities should protect.
Burning a Quran is a message of hate towards Muslims, that's simply it.
Sorry, but if we're going to be that strict about hate speech then we also must ban the quran itself, where racial violence, ethnic hate and slavery are promoted and justified. If we allow the quran we must allow people to hate the quran as well.
Swedish law guarantees freedom of religion. You can criticise the Quran, you can hate it, you can promote alternative humanist interpretations of the Quran, but the Quran itself will always be the symbolic representation of Muslims. This is simply reality.
Every ancient religious text has passages that did not age well, that is still not a reason to spread hate tho.
I know enough about the religious texts to know that's a huge simplification. And while the old testament does have horrible things in it, the quran goes far beyond. This is something we should be able to discuss freely.
Arguing which religious scripture is worse is a useless excercise imo.
I don't argue against criticism of the Quran. Even in Iraq, there are many people, that publicly do this.
Burning the Quran is not a critique and is not an invitation of a civil discussion. It is a declaration of extreme hate. Assuming anything different is just being overly charitable to a bunch of literal neo-Nazis.
And assuming that the sensitivies of people burning embassies should be accounted for is being overly charitable to a bunch of literal religious-nazis. These are 2 very different degrees of violence. It's not the same burning a book and burning an embassy (luckily no one died, but not that the mob cared).
These Iraqis are not Swedish citizens. The book burning is happening in Sweden. I don't agree with the violent response by these hooligans in Iraq and they should be held responsible. There is no rule of law in Iraq, so no idea how Iraqi authorities will respond.
But the book burning should not have happened in the first place, not because of the reaction in Iraq, but because it is not something a civilised society should condone.
I will not comment on this any further. These are my thoughts on this topic.
How does person A burning a book influence person B's freedom to exercise a religion exactly? Your religion binds you, not everybody else.
Every single religious person in the world needs to come to terms with the fact that the majority of other people in the world does not believe their religion to be true and does not believe their holy book to be holy. That's part of living in a connected world.
Should Swedes also support demonstrations, where Muslim Swedes burn Bibles, Torahs, LGBTIQ+ flags etc, as long as they cite βfreedom of speechβ and or wanting to do a βsocial experimentβ as their primary motivation?
Support? No, and Sweden certainly doesn't "support" the burning. But the government should absolutely not interfere with the right to demonstrate or burn whatever the fuck the individual owns and paid for with their own money.
I should probably mention that a record breaking gathering held a muslim prayer (which requires the same permission as the quran-protest) the same day in gothenburg: https://www.gp.se/nyheter/g%C3%B6teborg/tusentals-samlades-f%C3%B6r-b%C3%B6n-i-slottsskogen-historiskt-1.103502911
Should the government block that too?
Is praying publicly the same for you as burning the Quran? I don't see the similarity.
Did you miss the point on purpose?
I said that the law view them equally because the law/government isn't supposed to interfere with free speech. That doesn't mean that the people that make up the government have to agree with what the individual does under their right to free speech.
Bro your point doesn't make sense.
Praying in public is a threat to nobody.
Burning holy books or symbols of ethnic or religious minorities is a potential attempt to cultivate hate among the masses.
Just look at this comment section, people here pretend that this burning is a proof of every Islamophobic talking point that they have ever read about in some schizo Youtube comments.
Free speech stops when it has the potential to severly restrict the freedom of other people's lifes imo. This applies more or less to pretty much every Western country.
One could argue whether or not this is the case here, but having the police escort and protect the madmen while they burn the Quran, is just beyond free speech under any definition.
A Muslim activist who had received permission to burn a Torah and a Bible outside the Israeli embassy in Sweden on Saturday said he was backing off from the move, adding that he only wanted to draw attention to the recent burning of the Quran in the country.
That's crazy
Book burning is what fascists do and "just ignore them" is not the way to go about it. If the book burning wouldnt start a response next thing they'd burn a mosque and if that fails they'll just straight up murder people to incite a reaction.
Anti-Nazi? The guy who burned it today and earlier this summer is literary a former iraqi muslim. He's not really the nazi type, those are more clownlike.
We Middle Easterners can be way more racist and nationalistic than some drunk skinhead losers in Europe. That guy seems to be the type that browses r/AskMiddleEast or r/exmuslim. Maybe some guy from a broken family, daddy issues or whatever, I am not his psychotherapist lol. Fact is tho, that Nazis use this story as validation and that his supporters are mostly fascists as well.
Isn't there something actually useful to do in Iraq... Just asking.
Who cares if some idiot wants to burn $insertReligiousBook in some forgein country?
Oh yeah, religious zealots, that's who. /s
People protest a lot of stuff in Iraq. Just nobody cares about what the Iraqi public thinks.
After the removal of the Iraqi government and army in the Iraq war, Iraq has essentially become a failed state run by Iranian mafias and tribal militias. There is literally nothing useful to do in Iraq.
removal is a nice euphemism for a foreign invasion and installation of a government hostile to most of the people during a decade of occupation and ressource exploitation.
Fragile religiosity, they don't really trust god to punish the sinners..
thatβs such an interesting take on religious people forcing their beliefs on others: so what if they sin? Let your god take care of it, or do you think heβs too incompetent to deal with it himself?