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Hello all, sorry for such a newbish question, as I should probably know how to properly partition a hard drive, but I really don't know where to start. So what I'm looking to do is install a Debian distro, RHEL, and Arch. Want to go with Mint LMDE, Manjaro, and Fedora. I do not need very much storage, so I don't think space is an issue. I have like a 500+ something GB ssd and the few things that I do need to store are in a cloud. I pretty much use my laptop for browsing, researching, maybe streaming videos, and hopefully more programming and tinkering as I learn more; that's about all... no gaming or no data hoarding.

Do I basically just start off installing one distro on the full hard drive and then when I go to install the others, just choose the "run alongside" option? or would I have to manually partition things out? Any thing to worry about with conflicts between different types of distros, etc.? hoping you kind folks can offer me some simple advice on how to go about this without messing up my system. It SEEMS simple enough and it might be so, but I just don't personally know how to go about it lol. Thanks alot!!

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[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One thing that might matter is that if all distros use the same swap partition for hibernation, you shouldn't boot one distro after hibernating another or you might overwrite the saved RAM contents.

If you use different swap partitions or files, you probably should still avoid writing to a partition that belongs to a distro that isn't actually shut down.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ok, so maybe make a separate partition for each distro and a swap for each distro too? I'm also confused about the bootloader part too. I've never manually partitioned for a distro before, just always did the auto/recommended route.

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the easier solution would be not to use hibernation - either shut the system down properly or use suspend-to-RAM.

If everything works, the bootloader should be whichever GRUB version comes with the distro you install first and the other distros' installers should just add entries to boot them.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Perfect! Thanks for this info. Sounds much easier. Is there one particular bootloader you think would be BEST for multibooting different distro types? My guess would be a Debian system first probably? and do you recommend I make separate partitions for everything or just install the other distros into the same partition as the first install?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There shouldn't be any significant difference between the GRUB versions that come with different distros, so the order in which you install the distros doesn't really matter.

You can't install multiple distros on one partition, so you need at least one partition per distro.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok cool, thanks. Does the bootloader partition get created automatically by the installer or is that something you must do manually? and should each partition for each distro have it's own swap? or just one swap to handle all three?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The first installer will install the bootloader automatically.

It will also create a swap partition unless you tell it not to, and all distros will use all swap partitions by default, so you don't need more than one per disk.

If you don't hibernate one distro and then boot another, sharing a swap partition isn't a problem.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I appreciate the patience and helpfulness. Dont the distro installers automatically create a swap for you? if not, how large of a swap do you recommend and would that just be an empty fat32 or ext4 partition?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A swap partition doesn't have a filesystem - it has its own partition type and doesn't contain files. The installer might create one automatically or it might not - if it asks how large it should be, a good rule of thumb is to use the same size as your RAM.

If that turns out not to be enough, you can create a swap file on a data partition later and if it's too large, you just wasted a few GB but usually that doesn't matter.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok so then in this case, create one swap approximately the size of my RAM as I guess the first partition? and then each partition beyond would be just for the distros? i've scene diagrams of efi and bios partitions in the front too, what about those?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The order of the partitions shouldn't matter - usually the EFI partition comes first if there is one at all, but as far as I know that isn't actually required.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

thanks, makes it sound easier then. but what about the mount points like I mentioned? and do people make their own partition for the home directory??? and how does a storage partition integrate with three different distros? I just want to make sure I cover all my bases.

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

You can create dedicated partitions for /home, but unless you know why it makes sense in your specific situation, you shouldn't.

The data partition is just another partition that you can mount somewhere, for example /mnt/storage.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No need for manual partitioning, just resize the storage partition of the former distro, install automatically, repeat

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh and just to be sure, I need to use the live iso for the distro in order to resize partitions, is that right?

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, as I said. Install, in the installed OS use the partition manager to resize itself. I think that should work best.

During the live usb installer phase the system is not installed on disk. You can resize the partition of a running system afaik. If not, yes you may need to use a live usb to do that.

But main question, why?

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because I would like three daily drivers, one for each main distro type so I can learn more and explore other types like arch and rhel based, since I'm not knowledgeable on those. But I also want them to be workstations too, for normal usage. Just variety... And of course for learning. I dont just want a live disk to tinker with and thats all. I want these distros to maintain everything I do inside them just like any physically installed distro. Maybe I'm not properly conveying my view idk

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I dont see how this is important.

  • selinux vs apparmor
  • flatpak vs snap vs some package managers with varying names, thats it
  • zram vs swap
  • some filesystem differences

In the end its all GNU+Linux, the usage is the same. Just use Distrobox and learn how to use that, its so awesome.

You have a full CLI environment for each distro there, just no SELinux, apparmor or systemd.

I would recommend you to try Fedora. Mayve even the immutable spins. Thats the future and you can try a lot anyways like what I descriped.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks again. Im not quite sure what these immutable distros are, I keep hearing about them. Gotta do some researching!

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Immutable + atomic. Its similar to Android or IOS. It can be explained like that:

  • big parts of the core OS cant be changed easily. Immutable means "you cant change/break it". This also applies to software, third party install scripts, viruses and other things that might break your system.
  • atomic: updates are done like this:
  1. The system is an image, as if you would live boot a usb stick
  2. When you do an update, the package manager checks on the server for changes, I think it uses git. Only the changes are downloaded.
  3. rpm-ostree has downloaded the diffs, updated packages basically. Instead of just replacing your local packages, from the full operating system on your machine it builds a new image. Remember, the image is like the live USB or CDROM you can boot and use but not change.
  4. This new image is staged. This means if you reboot, you will boot into the updated version automatically. Updates go in the background and you will have a working system without any downtime. This is so much faster than for example Windows Updates or even standard Fedora "secure updates".
  5. atomic means that if something in that process fails, you will simply not get an update. So updates cant break anything.
  6. But dont forget its Linux and not Android. You can actually install what you want. This means during the "get updates phase" you can not only download "regular update packages" but also any other Fedora RPM package you want. This is called layering, as now this package is always added to your system on every update, as remember on every update your system would get resetted. You can also remove preinstalled packages, a common one on Fedora is the Firefox RPM.

That you can normally install apps is thanks to Flatpak, so you dont need to reboot on every install. The idea is to have a very slim core system and "outsource" as much as possible to Flatpak. This means at the same time, official packages, less work for the distro maintainers, and containerization.

In the future even more packages will be removed as native packages and installed through Flatpak. Buts still a developing technology and important things like native messaging or USB access (hardware security keys) are still missing.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Very very helpful. I tried to install Silverblue last night, but couldn't get it to work. after a successful install, when I go to restart, it just wouldn't restart, it would hang.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Warning: this is definitively doable, but messier than it looks like. I'd recommend you to partition it manually, before installing any distro, like this:

  • one partition per distro. For sizes check their requirements. Given 500GB I'd probably reserve 60GB for each, perhaps a bit more if I know that I'll install a lot of stuff in that distro.
  • one swap partition, that'll be accessed across distros. Optional if you have 16GB+ of RAM.
  • use the leftover space for a "storage" partition, for personal files that you won't save in someone else's computer (i.e. the cloud). That allows you to mess with the distros without risking your personal files.

Don't worry too much on getting the space right though - if necessary you can always resize a few partitions after installation. It's a bit of a bother though.

Do not share /home across distros, it's simply more trouble than it's worth. Instead, mount that "storage" partition in each distro, inside your /home/[$username] directory.


Another thing that you might want to consider is virtualisation. Odds are that you won't use a lot of those distros in your everyday, and that you're just curious about their differences. In that case, consider installing one of them, install Virtualbox in it, and then the other distros get installed inside Virtualbox. I'm suggesting that because it'll use overall less space, and make distro management less messy.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Thanks. I do not want to mess around with virtualization; I went down that rabbithole before and got lost and broke stuff lol. I need to do a bit more research and learning before im more confident with virtualization. So how large should the swap be? and what about a bootloader?? Are all three compatible with grub? also how large should the bootloader partition be? thanks, this is all a bit foreign to me.

[–] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All those distros are compatible with grub, and come with their own copies of it. You just need to install your distros, and then when you say "I want THIS ONE to manage boot", you follow this tutorial. (It's supposed to help you reinstalling grub after Windows, but it works fine for grub after another Linux instal).

Or, if you want to be lazy - install last the distro that you want to manage boot, then tell it "screw the current boot, reinstall it".

I wouldn't bother with a bootloader partition. The bootloader runs fine from any distro partition, and it's small enough so you don't need to worry about it wasting space.

swap

I've been running my system without swap whatsoever for quite some time, and it runs fine. But if you're planning to use hibernation or similar, reserve the same amount of swap space as you have RAM; for example if you have 8GB RAM then at least 8GB swap.

IMPORTANT: if hibernating a distro, don't boot another distro, otherwise the hibernation data will get wiped.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Perfect! I will be disabling hibernation in Bios. Also, how exactly do you choose a default bootloader when each distro automatically installs their own? not sure on that process. Or do things like display managers matter? or is Xorg or Wayland pretty much good for all three?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hibernation is an OS feature, so you can't disable it in the BIOS. You can either disable it in all your distros or simply not use it.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh ok thanks. I just coulda swore I saw a hibernation setting in BIOS. That's another thing, would I have to create a Bios partition? this is a tad more confusing that I thought. Also determining the proper sizes of everything. What about an efi partition? or is that only associated with Windows? I have no clue

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

~~There are no BIOS partitions - you may be confusing the term with the BIOS partition scheme, but that doesn't matter in this context~~ "BIOS partitions" do exist, but they are irrelevant on modern machines - they are for booting GPT disks on systems that only support MBR disks.

If you need an EFI partition, the first installer will create one. As for the sizes, the recommendation in the other comment makes sense to me (one ≈60 GB partition per distro, one swap partition and one partition for your personal files that uses the remaining space on the disk).

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean SHOULD I make an efi partition? I have no clue if I need it or if it's optional. Simple is better in my case lol. SOO just trying to put it all together so far. first create a roughly 8gb fat32 partition for swap? Then a 60gb ext4 partition for distro 1, then so on with the other two partitions and thats it? how does the storage partition work? what format should that be? and I was reading about mount points and stuff, what ought I know about those?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the installer doesn't automatically create an EFI partition, you can create a small FAT16 or FAT32 partition (a few hundred MB should be enough).

The swap partition is just a swap partition - that is the partition type you select in your partitioning tool.

The storage partition can be any format you want. If you don't need to access it from Windows, just use ext4.

Mount points are similar to drive letters, but more flexible. You can read these Wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_%28computing%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fstab

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks again. So did you mention it's not really necessary to install an efi partition? Idk if I need it or not? or is it just better safe than sorry, sorta like a swap?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you install your first distro without creating any partitions manually, the installer will probably create an EFI partition. Maybe it wouldn't need to create one on your specific system, but it will probably do it anyway.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

gotcha! now how would that storage partition work? like do you point each distro to that partition? is that how that works?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Usually you create an entry in /etc/fstab that tells the system which partition should be mounted where. I'd do that in each distro once you have installed all of them.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But how do you know which partition should be mounted wear and Im sorta confused by that statement. Like what do you mean by "where"? Aren't they all on the same hard drive, so wouldn't they all just mount to your drive?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's similar to how drive letters work in Windows: the partition you installed it on is C:\ and you can assign any other letter to any other partition.

On Linux, the partition you installed it on is / and you can mount other partitions in any empty directory.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I understand. Would I mount all partitions to root? also I just thought about something; what about gpt format? I know that is used for linux but where does that come in? like are ext4 and gpt the same types of things or different types of formats for different things?

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can only mount one partition at one mount point, but any empty directory on one partition can be a mount point for another partition.

GPT is a partition table and is not used for Linux specifically, but on any computer with UEFI - it defines how to find partitions on a disk, but not how they are formatted.

ext4 is a filesystem - formatting a partition with ext4 means creating data structures that tell the OS where to find files and directories in the partition.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ahh ok I understand the filesystem types but still darn confused about the mount points. So the first distro I should mount to root??? then how could I partition the next distros in empty partitions that don't have directories yet (since theres no distro on them yet). Sorry, just getting a lil confused on some parts

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mount points are specific to one install - for example, you can mount your Manjaro root partition as /mnt/manjaro on Fedora. From every distro's perspective, the partition it is installed on is /.

You seem to be mixing up the locations of partitions and mount points - a partition is somewhere on a disk and a mount point is basically a sign that points to it, and every distro can have different signs that point to the same thing.

[–] Macaroni9538@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok I'm following. that doesn't make sense to me to make the mount points for one distro inside another. I dont understand that. In my mind, it seems like the mount points would all be to the bootloader? but again, I dont know much about this stuff lol

[–] Gurfaild@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

You only need mount points in each distro for partitions that you want to be able to access from that distro. If you don't need access to your Arch system files from Debian, don't mount the Arch partition in Debian.

But if you have a partition that you want to access from multiple distros, you don't need to use the same mountpoint in each distro - just like a USB flash drive can be E:\ on one Windows computer and H:\ on another - that is just a name and the files on it are the same.

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