I find it weird that someone would want to have sex with someone who obviously does it only for money.
this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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Now that you mention it, isn't it odd that it feels weird? I wonder exactly where the line starts to come into focus between something as innocuous as paying for a meal and something as taboo as paying for sex? Obviously that's a question of culture, but it's entertaining to think about nonetheless...
Like, there's definitely something kind of unusual about this specific taboo. Speaking from the perspective of modern western culture, I'd say that the following things which share some characteristics with prostitution are all individually qualified as being relatively socially acceptable:
- Paying for therapy (i.e.: buying the service of social comfort)
- Paying for a massage (i.e.: buying the service of physical comfort)
- Having a one night stand (i.e.: receiving the service of sexual comfort without buying it)
- Buying a sex toy (i.e.: buying sexual comfort without involving a service worker)
I posit that there's something uniquely specific about the direct intersection of service, money, and sexual pleasure which makes prostitution uniquely uncomfortable for (modern western) people to think about. I might be overthinking it, though. Perhaps these three things are already uncomfortable topics to really think about so we naturally want to resist the idea of combining them?
I think the reason is that for some people sex is not the same as any other activity you can do with your body and I think itβs not just culture but actually a neurobiological reaction.
Itβs probably just odd because we know awfully little about how our brains, our hormones and whatever feelings are work. And sex is really one thing that taps into all three of these areas we donβt understand yet.
To give you another example, we canβt really explain why some types of torture are so devastating to us.
We value interactions differently because we intuitively want to be careful with things that could potentially influence us in major ways. Personally I believe buying sex feels so uncomfortable for some people because for them bonding and intimacy is connected with it. That clashes with buying it from a stranger. Also it seems kinda pointless or deranged then. Like buying a birthday party or a Christmas Eve with strangers.
I don't see a problem with it as long as no trafficking is involved.
I agree with this. I have found that most women do not however. It has been a great trouble for me, to talk about, when trying to find a new partner.
Do you make use of the sex workers while in the relationship with the new partner?
Absolutely not
Then why speak of it?
I donβt talk about previous sexual partners with new ones.
OP's out there on first dates asking if they have a problem with him doing it...
I can't imagine women are bringing it up
Not necessarily first dates. I just answer truthfully when the topic comes up. I don't want to have it be a problem further down the line
I just answer truthfully when the topic comes up
It's just really hard to believe a women asks if you've had sex with a sex worker...
Most people don't ask for numbers, let alone details.
I ask my partners because I do not want to be with someone who pays for sex. Simply because our views on sex would be very different which leads to problems in the relationship, from my experience. Also, it would be quite dumb to lie on this because than we are both just wasting our time.
Its a perfectly reasonable option for those that for whatever reason are unable to meet their needs by more conventional/ socially acceptable means. I do not make use of sex worker services currently but if the need arose in the future I would not rule it out, and would not look down on anyone else for doing so (as long as trafficing is not involved)
Do you think it would be okay for a state to, for example, cut off social benefits for a person who canβt find any other job but refuses to do sex work?
No, that would be wrong, but there is always some form of work out there that isnt sex work - it may not be pleasant or well paid though
Do you really think sex work is pleasant?
Most sex workers are from poor countries, many are single mothers who have to send money back home. Often times there is a pimp (or "boyfriend") in the back who expects some kind of debt payments.
How do you explain that about 95 % of sex workers are disenfranchised women from poor countries when it's supposedly a pleasant job that makes a lot of money?
One situation where I think it's perfectly rational to use sexual services is for mentally handicapped people who have no realistic options for actual relationships. I live in Denmark where prostitution is legal on some conditions. The healthcare staff sometimes have to order prostitutes for their clients to cope with their urges and thereby avoiding violent situations from someone getting too frustrated. The client pays themselves and it's both men and women using the option. The sex workers in these jobs are usually not found in back alleys or dodgy websites but through personal networks. It's still very taboo.
I wonder how these clients are treated in countries where it is outright illegal. Probably not at all, or by illegal methods.
The main problem seems to be trafficking, not the sex services. Everyone does something for money that they really don't want to do, like going to the office 40 hours every week.
If it was possible and required to verify the consensuality, it would probably remove a lot of the illegal services, and more legal services could thrive. There'll always be ways to work around it, so it's a difficult thing to address.
I canβt understand how people can compare these jobs. Does working in an office really feels the same for you than having sex with strangers?
So long as everyone involved consents sans coercion, I do not see why anyone else should care/be involved
All work is exloitation, sexual work is sexual exploitation. Its not exactly consent if the other option is being homeless or starving.
That's trie if any work, as you're saying. But then why would it be more of a problem with sex work than with any other work?
Do you feel like any other work is the same as sex work? For example does flippping burgers the same to you as having to have sex with a stranger?
Does getting paid still counts as "sans coercion" though ?
Do you really feel like youβre coercing a waitress when you tip?
Does waiting tables and having sex with strangers feel similar to you? These jobs arenβt comparable from a psychological standpoint. I never heard that itβs common for waiters to be substance users or have PTSD.
Weirdly enough, restaurant workers are some of the highest substance users group. A Google search on this subject is quite surprising.
It's not even close to sex workers which have the highest amount of substance abuse among all professions.
There's a huge difference between picking up a streetwalker, going to a legal brothel, or answering a personal ad in places like Canada where it's a grey area if it's legal
Like, off the street there's probably some coercion somewhere, legal brothel it's less likely they're forced to do it but it might still be trafficking but there's likely at least some form of oversight, and personal ads are a total crapshoot. It might be someone who's selective and just making some money, it might be someone that has to accept every offer.
When things arent 100% legal, some shady is statistically just going to happen. You can't regulate an illegal business.
Tbh I know little about the topic and was under the (maybe wrong) impression than many sex workers are poor people that need to do it to survive. But then I guess the issue I was pointing is more about our capitalist society than about sex work
In Germany the majority (about 95 %) of sex workers are people from the poorest countries of EU. Because of the high demand and the amount of money you can make with brothels there is also an increase in trafficking from countries outside of the EU.
The thing is we can't know because it's illegal in most places.
There's some who only take clients they're attracted to anyways and manage to pull in a lot of money.
There's some that if they dont make X amount of money a night, they'll get beat.
Anyone that claims to know how much are in each group are pulling numbers out of their ass. And people that act like they're all the same are usually using the services of people who are forced into it.
Not all sex work is equal ethically.
But generally speaking, the less legal it is, the worse they're treated. Because they have no legal recourse if they're mistreated
Also like, people work dangerous jobs where they DIE because they need to money to pay rent and buy food, so only caring about sex workers is kind of fucked up.
Sex work is the most dangerous job in the world. They have a higher number of victims of violence and PTSD than any other profession. For PTSD only war veterans have similar results.
Pretty sure truck driver is the most dangerous job in the world.
Perhaps you shouldn't just guess but actually look it up.
Regulated does not mean people werenβt pressured into it. Telling a young single mother from a poor country that most of her problems will vanish if she just works as a sex worker for a few years in Germany is legal and regulated. Itβs not trafficking and not really coercion either. She will get a social security number, pay taxes, get health care, all that stuff she perhaps wonβt get at home.
What do you think she will tell you if you ask her whether she is doing the job freely and if she wants to keep the job? Of course she will say yes.
But is it really just like any other job? The fact that sex workers in countries where it is regulated still suffer disproportionately from mental health problems, alcohol and drug abuse tells a different story.
I believe a lot do not care whether the sex worker really does the job as a free decision. I think even more have no respect for sex workers. A few do not see sex workers as people, but rather as usable bodies. A few go to sex workers because they are misogynists. I think a few use it to be unfaithful towards their partners without their partners having the same opportunities.
I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to selling their body for sex.
However, I don't live in that world, so in the meantime I support sex workers, because sex work is work.
The men who use their services? That's a tougher nut to crack.
My partners brother is heavily mentally disabled and pushing 40, he's still very much like a child, but obviously does not have a child's libido. This man has never had an intimate interaction with a woman. He might never get the chance, he struggles to talk to women, even women who have similar issues as himself. I think sex workers could be beneficial for him, in the right context, for giving him intimacy he may otherwise never experience. I don't think he would ever think/know to pursue a sex worker, but I could be wrong. There's also the issue of his emotions began to be involved, which leads me to...
I'd be more worried about him finding OnlyFans and blowing through all his disability money each month instead of realizing he's not actually getting much out of such a "relationship." He's the kind of person who a parasocial relationship like that could really damage their already troubling mental health. The same thing could happen with a prostitute, but they are less likely to hang the relationships on fake social cues that say they care about you. He's not quite advanced enough to understand that these women are being paid to pretend to care, I don't think.
Also, there's other types of men who use these services I'm sure aren't a net positive. There are plenty of conservative men who already view a standard relationship as a sexual transaction (I take care of girl = she give me sex), so they're not far from viewing everything women with transactional already. Secondly, not only do the already view it as transactional, many of these conservative men turn to prostitutes because average women simply don't want to date them because of their horrible, outdated views on women's bodily autonomy. They are already angsty and moody because of women not wanting to date them, and they often are willing to take out their frustrations on the woman they paid to serve them. I see these men as not respecting and hurting the women they turn to for sex work.
Anyway, just some quick thoughts on the subject.
Thank you for putting what's pretty much exactly my view on the topic into words.
I would like to add though that I expect of men using sex services to thoroughly check and make sure that the women whose service they use provide this service by their own choice, which means they are in no way forced, not by pimps but also not by financial hardship.
With this constraint I'm afraid that many if not most existing sex services are actually probably not ethical to use.
Sex work is legal where I live. Nevertheless there is a lot of crime related to the sex work sector, human traficking, sexual abuse of minors, gangs etc. However I think it would be much worse if it was not regulated in anyway. My personal opinion - I would rather live in a world without it. Personally I would never go to a hooker. Most important thing though is that sex workers can decide for themselves and are not forced to do sex work (may it physical force, drug addiction or just no other way financially)
We pay for everything else. A professional is a professional. Mechanic or prostitute. It's a mutual transaction. Regulate it and make sure it's safe. When ai porn blows up there going to be a lot more sex workers.
When ai porn blows up there going to be a lot more sex workers.
How?