this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2024
234 points (85.7% liked)
Political Memes
5413 readers
4543 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Zionist sociopath detected
On Lemmy you can either be antisemite or zionist, there seems to be nothing in between.
What if I told you Hamas and the Israeli government both suck?
That's a ban on ml lol
Nuanced opinions aren't allowed on the internet.
I would say that is a rational take that I see posted on lemmy about as often as I see people posting in favor of Isreal or Palestine. The only opinion I don't think I've seen anyone express is pro-Hamas although I have seen a lot of zionists claiming that people have.
Yes, I think we shouldnt kill 7 million Jews. Apparently that makes me a sociopath according to a rando on lemmy
Nobody is talking about killing 7 million Jews. Your hypothetical feelings of victimhood is being used to justify an actual genocide.
What do you think happens to the people of Israel if they simply give up?
Hint: Gaza is 99% Sunni Muslim for a reason.
I'd like to jump in and ask a genuine counter question:
I don't know enough to answer. So I googled it.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)
https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx
Here's the link I went to.
I'll address your source in a moment, but I was more aiming for what socio-political conditions might cause a group like Hamas to decide they need to take the action they have taken.
Hamas exists due to the (as of today) 3/4 of a century of oppression that the Palestinians have been subjected to as a result of the creation of Israel after WW2. When the was ended, it was decided that the European Jewish population needed a safe region, so the British and Zionists (reminder that Zionists are often christians and that the creation of Israel was a "biblical prophecy") pushed the Palestinians out of their homes to create Israel, the land for which was forcibly partitioned and claimed as a result of a funded war. Many Palestinians still have the keys for the homes they were forced out of.
This isnt even detailing the 1967 repartitioning, or the long standing and repeated mistreatment of people within the open air prison that is the Gaza strip and the Palestinian permitted areas of the west bank, or many, many other things.
Hamas is the result of decades of oppression and dismissal of the Palestinian people.
Now, regarding your link, yes, this is the 1988 hamas covenant(it was softened a little in 2017) and I dont really care about it in regards to whether or not Israel should be carrying out its actions. I posed this hypothetical to another user but I'll shorten it to restate it here:
Hamas has done terrible, terrible things. During WW2, the Nazi's claimed that the Jewish people had done, or were planning things of a similar nature, in order to justify the "necessity of the holocaust"(not a quote, just wanted to make clear that it wasnt my sentiment). If there were groups of Jewish people who had done things like Hamas has done, would that justify the holocaust? If you answer correctly (correct answer is "no it wouldn't") then why do the actions of Hamas seemingly justify the indiscriminate and unceasing killing of Palestinian civilians?
Data from Star Trek studies the history of political violence
So why the downvote? I made no moral claim to hold ANY stance. Just used the mission statement I found published by Hamas.
Was my source bad?
I guess only one thing can be evil at once 🤷
I genuinely didnt even realize I downvoted in all honesty. Genuine mistake that I'll remove once I hit post.
Your source was outdated and asking for, but otherwise accurate. I was asking for what caused them to form, but your source is their (for lack of better words) manifesto. Why they do, but not why why they are.
I see a manifesto as akin to a mission statement. The issues highlighted within are the why. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
Hatred using religion as an excuse mainly
Or maybe it's the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 by Europeans and the subsequent 76 years of colonial apartheid and brutality.
Hamas is literally an Arabic acronym for "the party of resistance"
Europeans werent the ones to ethnically cleanse Palenstine
So, what @Mrkawfee@lemmy.world said is correct.
The existence of Hamas, and their inexcusable actions, are a direct consequence of Israel's militaristic apartheid and colonial oppression of the Palestinian people.
Hypothetical: If there was record from mid-WW2 of Jewish resistance fighters committing actions against the German population that are of the same nature as what Hamas does to Israel today, would that have made the oppression and violent action of the Nazis valid? Or would that be a distasteful, yet potentially necessary reaction to the conditions that they were subjected to?