this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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submitted 4 weeks ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz
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[–] Mercuri@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I typically use the fact that there are trees older than 4000 years old based on tree ring data. Or that there are stars in the sky further than 4000 light years away that we can see in the sky.

That usually makes them say something like how their God created an world that was already aged. So I usually counter with the fact that would make their God a lier and deceiver.

Some hold firm and say God did it to test faith. Others back pedal and try to blame it on Satan. That Satan scattered all this false evidence just to make us question the notion that Earth is 4000 years old to make people lose faith in God. And then I have to laugh at how stupid their argument is and how weak their God is. Naturally no amount of evidence or logic will make them change their belief.

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The important thing is, you're compelling people to examine their pre-existing beliefs. They won't change their beliefs during your conversation, because deprogramming takes time. But the more seeds of doubt you plant, the better the chances are that some will germinate.

I find that the most effective way to encourage people to question themselves is to discuss things calmly and in good faith, through in-person conversations. Challenging people to "convert me" has been surprisingly fruitful - after all, I honestly would love to believe that a benevolent deity is looking out for us all. (As well, tons of believers would equally love to be the one who "shows [you or me] the light.") I want them to provide compelling evidence that can change my mind.

Approaching the conversation in this fashion not only challenges the "missionary" types to think harder, but it also shifts the onus onto them to convince you. If they've never thought critically about their message, this kind of conversation may introduce questions that stick with them long after it's over.

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

And even better because they start to come to their own thought-out conclusions. There's less baggage in the way for them to eventually work their way through it. Especially when they've got to convince you - because mysteriously they always jump to all of this "proof" to show you.

It doesn't happen immediately, and if you try to speed it up you'll just cause them to reverse course.

I'll sprinkle a little bit of ... my own confusion into the mix? As an example, I'll remain interested, but be like "wait, you said X but then you said Y - doesn't that contradict X?" I'll let them explain and not fight them on it, but send them off with a warm smile.

Not everyone will break free of the programming, but some will - and that's all I can hope for.