this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
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[–] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 31 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (106 children)

Any ~~current~~ real-life examples of "communism good"?

[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 42 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (33 children)

It's been democratically instituted many times. And every time America marches in and "liberates" them.

It's difficult to provide good examples when they're all actively destroyed.

[–] beejboytyson@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Cuba. Cuba has the most educated population in North America, more doctors per capita then almost any other nation. The only reason they're struggling is because America's embargo. They want stuff too.

[–] eatCasserole@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Mostly this, although Vietnam is doing quite well, especially considering their circumstances.

Cuba is also really interesting...not thriving, to be sure, but you have to end the US blockade before you blame them for their own hardships. And in spite of everything, they have democracy like we've never seen in the west.

Edit: also what beejboytyson said about Cuba.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The US dropped more napalm, and bombs, and agent orange on vietnam (a comparatively small country) than it did during all of WW2. Lots of its people are still suffering from this atrocity.

[–] eatCasserole@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Sadly true. And most people aren't aware that they did pretty much the same thing to Laos, who they weren't even at war with. They just carpet bombed the whole country, "just in case."

Fuck the USA. They're literally the evil empire from star wars.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 months ago (5 children)

It's so funny that george lucas was like: "the rebels are the vietnamese communists, and the empire is the USA (its soldiers the storm troopers)" and somehow a lot of modern star wars fans are extremely pro-US, and never connect the dots.

IMO the biggest critique of star wars, its that lucas didn't focus at all on the lives of the stormtruppen, and force its audience in the imperial core to look in the mirror, at their values, their chauvinist culture, their pro-war ideology and news media.

Still gotta keep blaming the rebels for all the world's problems.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)
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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 months ago (18 children)

Here you go, and before you say China is not really communist. That's true that China is in a socialist stage of development led by the Communist party. However, it's very clear that it is developing very differently from capitalist countries.

The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf

From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4

From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&locations=CN&start=2008

By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html

Then there are the massive poverty alleviation programs in China that have no comparison in the US https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes

If we take just one country, China, out of the global poverty equation, then even under the $1.90 poverty standard we find that the extreme poverty headcount is the exact same as it was in 1981.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/07/5-myths-about-global-poverty

China also massively invests in infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2014/12/05/china-used-more-concrete-in-3-years-than-the-u-s-used-in-the-entire-20th-century-infographic/

China also built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/ten-years-27000km-china-celebrates-a-decade-of-high-speed/

Such massive infrastructure projects directly improve the standard of living for the people of the country.

Social mobility happens to be really high as well https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-social-mobility.html

Furthermore, people in China see their country working in their interest and hence view it as being far more democratic than people do living under the dictatorship of capital

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, if you want a historical example then look no further than USSR.

Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:

USSR provided free education to all citizens resulting in literacy rising from 33% to 99.9%:

USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960's, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:

Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 peroid while having better nutrition:

USSR moved from 58.5-hour work weeks to 41.6 hour work weeks (-0.36 h/yr) between 1913 and 1960:

USSR averaged 22 days of paid leave in 1986 while USA averaged 7.6 in 1996:

In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67 and the average (not median) retiree household in the USA could expect $48k/yr which comes out to 65% of the 74k average (not median) household income in 2016:

GDP took off after socialism was established and then collapsed with the reintroduction of capitalism:

The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:

So, how do people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism?

The Free market paradise goes East chapters in Blackshirts and Reds details some more results of the transition to capitalism.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)
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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 12 points 2 months ago (8 children)

If you ever been to a commune where people share food, resources, bills. They go under the radar.

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[–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Open source software is like communism. Held in commons, free to use, contribute to, and benefit from.

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