this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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I'm not refusing to engage, I simply don't see things the way you do.
I don't think we're likely to make much progress here I'm either direction.
You are.
I wasn't asking you to agree with the definition, I was asking you to follow it through. You know, like a descriptivist.
If a woman must identify as a woman, then a person who says "I am not a woman" should not be called one. You're in the category if you want to be, you're not if you don't. Simple. Easy. Much utility. This is exactly what people in my camp use it for.
I'll point out, by the way, dictionaries provide a lot of useful context, but you cannot expect them to teach you the world. Words there depend on words for meaning. If you don't know any single word, you can't parse any of the meaning. If you don't believe me, read a French dictionary (no translations) and see if you can parse out from the words alone what anything is.
The only way to parse meaning is to match words you see to experiences you have in life. This is actually how children learn languages. No child knows "the definition," but they do know how to use the words.
I don't agree with this. What I've been trying to tell you.
I don't identify as a man, I just do what's expected of me socially as a man. I fit every conventional definition of man, so I believe that's a very good descriptor and has utility. It helps that I fit the traditional role of a man too.
You mention kids learning what words mean through usage. So what is a child's conception of a woman? It's going to be based off roles within our society, not how someone feels.
Then you will forever misunderstand us.
You don't identify as a man? So, if you did things that society expects of women, would you be.. a woman.. then? Look, the dispassion is admirable, I just wasn't expecting you to be so loose about it.
It's gonna be faces of people they know along with liberal use of the word "woman" in their presence. I mean, do you understand an orange is like a banana the very first time you see one?
If I did things that society expects of women, then I would be a woman. Right.
I don't know what your point about the fruit is. Children have a working definition of what a woman is, it's a helpful description.
That's.. what you said, though. You're a man because you do things men do.
Okay. Do you know that oranges and bananas are both "fruit."
They're actually both berries, even.
Yes. I make an effort to present as a man because its convenient. Everyone identifies me as a man then it's a useful and accurate definition. I don't see there's an issue with this.
I still don't understand your point about berries.