this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
544 points (98.6% liked)
Ukraine
8279 readers
538 users here now
News and discussion related to Ukraine
*Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.
*No content depicting extreme violence or gore.
*Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title
*Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human must be flagged NSFW
Donate to support Ukraine's Defense
Donate to support Humanitarian Aid
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Many russians outside of russia still support russia. It's not the lack of accessible information, I'm afraid.
I swim in these circles and there's not much data to confidently say if that's true or not. I'd encourage you to note three (or rather six) groups by their path into, like, EU.
The percentage of those who love Putin, or rather of those completely unhinged, grows steadily from 1 to 2 and to 3.
1 are just normal people.
2 are the most evil group in fact, usually indirectly connected to the regime ; it's the kind of elite that was the basis for late 00s and early 10s fake opposition, intended to overshadow the remnants of the old opposition (which was basically the same people who protested in 1991 against Soviet actions in Caucasus and Baltics, against Chechen wars, against Yeltsin's second term). And yes, the loudest virtue-signalling figures of today's Russian opposition are from among them. Many of them still have relatives and friends among Russian elites.
3 are the kind of idiots they have everywhere, Russians of this group are similar to Serbians loving Russia or Americans thinking there's their traditionalist heaven in Russia, or tankies believing China is heaven on earth.
The population of the latter idiots should be in check tho. Countries closest to Russia has a hell of problem with their diasporas. It's dangerous to let them form a political power.
Well, one example I like - Kaja Kallas, former PM of Estonia, is not considered a member of any Russian diaspora and is not such an idiot. She, however, has family ties with Anton Vaino, the head of AP in Russia, and she's becoming a member of EC. She already held enormous power while also being popular, and is going for even bigger power. BTW, Estonian armaments for Ukraine are rotten Soviet junk for which they get good compensations.
I'd say 90% of all the problems are the corrupt elites and not that kind of idiots. They can only do harm with their votes.
This is frankly a scapegoat.
Countries half-assimilated into Russia had that problem. Belarus and Ukraine specifically. The former is a dictatorship and the latter doesn't have it anymore.
Vatnik voters in Baltic countries make exactly two notable effects - they vote for local weird social-democrats and sometimes make noise about Victory Day and Soviet Union. It's not dangerous.
What's dangerous is when a neighboring richer country invades you, but it can do that without an excuse. Again, see Azerbaijan in every year since 2020, and frankly including 2020 and 2016 - despite Western passive approval, they'd signed a fuckload of papers saying there won't be a military solution and self-determination is a principle.
I hear you.
My perspective is biased due to where I get it, and european vatniks are one of the most hated groups by those who try, fail or wish to immigrate. Thus, these posts get insane traction even if they are just weirdos and a minority. Maybe I'd unlearn it one day, spending less and less time on these sites.
Most Russian-speakers in Germany (which aren't recent Ukrainian refugees) are in category 3 and there's definitely few Putin-fans among them. In a sense it's funny: Most came here directly after the fall of the USSR, passports are trivial to get for diaspora Germans from (ex-)communist countries, not all still spoke German -- and if they did probably some random-ass dialect that noone else understands. Long story short their collective identity was always more a mix of German and USSR than that of any particular republic because they came from all over the place, of course there were Putin-fans among the ones from current-day Russia but the rest set many many straight pretty much day one.
Also flying Z flags gets you straight-up arrested in Germany: Approval of crimes, to wit, a war of aggression.
And you might get shouted at by a random Hungarian biker.
Glad that it's like that. There are always some worrying news about the far right in Europe, but I'm glad the z-wastika isn't tolerated.
Offtop: What're most popular ways you know to get into Germany from one particular failed state and are they still availiable if you aren't that young and know only basics of the language? Asking for a friend.
If "not that young" means born before 1993 Spätaussiedler status might be an option. Only knowing basics of the language isn't an issue AFAIK especially if you've learned it as a native language, but tracing ancestry will be critical. I know very little about the process short of that it's quite bureaucratic, here's the government page on it.
Otherwise it's going to be regular migration which generally means high-skilled or high-demand jobs, or otherwise having money so that you can finance living here without having a working permit. Or refugee/asylum status and reasons for that not expiring before you are entitled to naturalise.
Thank you.
Of all these, having no germanese ancestors and no cash, I feel like high-skilled jobs is the most viable path. It's a bitch to prove I worth it and know stuff, but I guess I can try.
Is there some site to apply that way, probably with some additional educational programs, if I don't have a germanese employer wanting to take me?
https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/
Coming to study is possible but you'll have to have cash to support yourself, vocational training is also possible and you'd generally earn money while training so that's probably more approachable, if you already have an academic degree that's a definitive plus, for IT people three years of work experience counts as a degree for these purposes. For all that there's also the option to get a visa for the purpose of finding a job but you should definitely shop around beforehand otherwise that's just an expensive tourist visa. If you, say, already worked as electrician or lorry driver you might lack qualifications to work here but that kind of experience will still count for companies hiring you.
russians outside of russia likely had wealth allowing them to leave which likely means they are associated with the corruption relatively high up.
Plenty of them are middle class or lower. It's not that hard for a Russian citizen to get a work visa in the the EU.
And while half of them understand they are in the EU because Putin's ideology made Russia a shithole, despite having all the means to be a developed country, the other half suffers from a terminal case of cognitive dissonance.
Truck driving is a big thing for Russians in the U.S. Spoke to one who barely spoke English.
or opposite chased out of the country and fortune to be alive
I doubt those are the ones who are supportive.
You haven't met my father then :/
I guess its like our maga crowd. so many you can tell are on public assitance of some kind and they fight to screw themselves.
I think its important to differentiate "many" from "majority". I've been to pro-Ukraine anti-Russia demonstrations and there were enough Russians there to convince me that the majority of Russians outside of Russia do not support the invasion. That being said, there are definitely plenty of idiots. In at least one case, I know someone who decided that despite not having lived there for 40 years, that now is the time to develop a sense of patriotism and return... it did not go well.
Tell us more 😂
Idk, the russians i know hate russia
That settles it then.
Only if he knows "many"
Isn't it, because many of the outside Russians are oligarchs or family of oligarchs that directly benefit from putin's regime?
They should send those people back to Russia and revoke any other citizenship in Western countries they have.
They should live in the "paradise" they want to impose on others.
Source? I only have anecdotal reference, but all the Russian people i know hate Putin for what he has done to their home country. Independent from where i know them, some via work, some via friends and family.
Same, anecdotal reference. People I know, distant acquaintances.
Many =/= all.