Fedigrow

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Lemmy.world community banned people for misinformation on the post complaining about Lemmy.ml instance banning people for misinformation (reddthat.com)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by Blaze@reddthat.com to c/fedigrow@lemm.ee

20 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Modlog visible here: https://lemmy.world/modlog/2

Or on !fediverse@lemmy.world

I have no stake in this argument (centralization on both lemmy.ml and lemmy.world is detrimental in my opinion), but I found it kind of ironic.

Not sure if this is the best place to post it, but didn't know of any "neutral" fediverse communities, so I guess this one works.

Edit: the thread itself: https://lemmy.world/post/16211417

Some examples of removals/bans: https://reddthat.com/post/20718767/11186767

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[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

One example of comment removal that caught my eye:

They can’t engage with any topics or offer counter arguments. Every response is: Calling people fascists, insulting and using ad hominems is lemmy.world's thing. The comment section to this is mind-blowing, really. All the things of which users of lemmy.world are accusing other instances, is exactly what your instance is doing. And you don't even see the hypocrisy...

Reason: Misinformation

ban difference of thoughts, opinions, and beliefs That's exactly what lemmy.world is doing.

Reason: Misinformation

Not being able to criticize an instance on that instance seems counterproductive to me. You are convincing people that they are right claiming you apply censorship as they are being censored.

One ban example that caught my eye:

The whole "USSR allied with the Nazis" thing is actually Nazi propaganda and historical evidence proves this repeatedly. Before the war started, Stalin offered to send 1 million soldiers preemptively to England and France, together with artillery and aviation, if they agreed to a mutual defense agreement against Nazis. The soviet union wasn't prepared industrially for a war like that, again as proven by the 20+ million deaths in the war, and wanted to postpone it as much as possible, and join the allies as soon as it started, but France and England were too eager to see communism destroyed and didn't care about mutual defense, especially England. The fact that the Soviet Union later invaded some countries to the east of Germany was in preparation for war, to prevent Nazism from rising in these places and the military there allying with Hitler, as Finland did for example (there were plenty of Finns sieging Leningrad). Equating Nazism and the USSR is a revisionist, fascist talking point based on purposeful misinterpretation of some data like the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and outright omission of other data such as the attempted Collective Security policy attempted by the USSR since the early 30s to protect Europe from fascism, that England and France conveniently didn't agree to since nazis and fascists were enemies of communism as they were.

Reason: Misinformation / Harassment

That user was later banned.

This comment has a source (The Telegraph, might not be the best, but still). Seems more interesting to keep the comment, show them why they are wrong, so that people reading the whole conversation can see which side is more reasonable, than removing the comment and banning the user altogether.

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"You don't understand!! The USSR was allied with the Nazis because they were fighting the Nazis!!!"

I've seen you post a lot of fantastic stuff on here and appreciate the good changes you're actively bringing to the Fediverse, but I have to disagree on this one.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

What was wrong with the post specifically? It all looks true and sourced to me. A non aggression pact is not the same as being allies with the Nazis unless you think Sweden, Switzerland, and the US were allied with the Nazis, too, for a time. The USSR needed time to build up their forces and get a buffer zone since the people they wanted to ally with refused to fight the enemy they were scared of, an enemy they had to prepare for.

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's ridiculous, on its face. They wanted a "buffer zone?" So that gave them the right to violently invade people's countries? Justified the next half century of murder and torture after the Nazis were defeated? Come on.

Regarding the non-aggression pact, if they were scared of the Nazis they would have fought them while the Allies fought them. Hitler broke the Ribbentrop Pact, not the USSR. More revisionism propaganda.

They did both of those things because the Kremlin is a violent imperial power that has put many millions of innocent people under the ground, with or without the facade of communism. The gulag isn't just a meme, and there are good reasons their neighbors hate them.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think it gives them right, nor do I think it was the right thing to do, but it does explain it from a real politik point of view, especially after being left alone by western countries. Countries do similar stuff all the time, and I think it's more morally justifiable than the US extending their reach by bombing the hell out of Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, Cambodia, most of South America, etc. They can't even justify those things with self-defense.

They didn't attack at the same time because they were weren't strong enough yet and knew it. I thought that other comment already established that. It makes sense. It would explain why Hitler pushed so far into the USSR on their military campaign. Entering a war is a hard thing to justify for people at home. It's easier when you are provoked. Hell, the US didn't start attacking with their troops at the same time, either, for the same reason. They had to wait until Pearl Harbor. In fact, didn't they even officially enter even later?

The USSR had some major problems, but the issue I have noticed is that people always talk as if the USSR is some extra ordinary evil empire, but when you look at everything, it's not too much worse than the US. The US also had prison labor camps with a vast amount of people in it, except it had a racial component. They also had a huge, surveillance state (just ask MLK, Jr, or Fred Hampton). They also had internal purges (see Hollywood). They also deployed troops and bombs around the world, spreading murder and torture, in an imperialist fashion. The only thing is they don't have to worry about being invaded, so they don't have to make those same kinds of decisions with the fear of the safety of their citizens close to home. And yet no one talks about the US with the same vitriol. I'm kind of appreciating the even handed view of being in the middle of these multiple echo chambers between lemmy.world and like hexbear or lemmygrad lol.

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee -1 points 5 months ago

You have a twisted perspective... are you getting your info from YouTube or something?