Go - Weiqi - Baduk

Well, I finally found out how to subscribe to c/baduk from here. Any baduk players still hanging around?

The NAGF pro qualifiers are underway. Really grateful to Devin craze and baduk club for going the extra mile to add some real sparkle to the broadcasting side of thingss!

These guys do a pretty nice job of covering the news of the professional go scene in English for everyone! Iv found its been a cool way to get into the world of professional go and learn more about the players and the rivalries and the stakes being played for. Check them out!

How am I supposed to start playing it?

A game I played a few years ago against a bot while I was learning the game. Cat decided to come finish the job (I was white and its black to play)

Some example pics/vids

I finally have this in a completed enough state to share! This is my DIY electronic 9x9 go board, complete with stone detection, LEDs, and full connectivity to OGS. I'll probably make a seperate build guide/process as I figure it's complicated enough not to mix with the boards features.

As it stands, the board has three main modes, Singleplayer (Vs an OGS bot), Multiplayer (vs any OGS opponent), and a demo/test board. It can resume in progress games on OGS, and can start new bot games (currently it cannot start a new multiplayer game, I'm honestly not sure if that's really necessary with open challenge wait times). It has full illegal move/ko detection, and (mostly) is capable of reconnecting if the conneciton to the OGS server is lost. It can estimate the current score locally courtesy of GNUGo. A local SGF file is also generated for every mode and can be saved for future reference.

I still need to finish implementing the stone removal phase, at the moment it'll just accept whatever the opponent approves (which could definitely be an issue if found out!), but this will only be needed for multiplayer. Also online undos. It can be done, but will be a bit tricky due to how the board tracks previous moves.

There's a lot more I can share but I don't want to spam, I'm happy to answer any questions y'all have!

some build/progress pics

Tsumego Hero is one of my favorite online tsumego sources, along with 101weiqi. I like the large number of problems from different collections and being able to do subsequent related problems for a topic, in contrast to random problems like on blacktoplay.

Today I decided to give that site another look (did only 101weiqi for a while) and found that they have a time-limited mode with different unlockable levels, very similar to the popular "strength test" on 101weiqi or badukpop. I just did a couple of problem sets and it looks very polished, which is amazing if you consider it's just made by few people (mainly Joschka Zimdars), doesn't have ads and no premium subscriptions. (You can get some donation perks but it only requires a one-time donation and you really don't need the perks like more board textures.)

My personal approach is doing tsumego from different sources, I like both apps, different websites but also have tsumego books and do tsumegos from go journals. I thing seeing different styles is useful and that way it's more fun and less monotonous.

(Here some hashtags because I want to share this post on my mastodon as well, thanks to federation, and there they help: #baduk #weiqi #go #gogame #tsumego #goproblem)

Besides this being a news for Ichiriki Ryo now had a lead of 3 to 1 against Iyama Yuta (just 1 more win to get the Honinbo title), the scoring of this game also showed a quite rare situation, when they played more than 361 moves (total 364 moves for this game). One side completely filled up during manual scoring, and had to count stones off the board.

In the case of this game, it was filled to one side with 4 space left on the board for black, and 3 extra white stones off the board, hence 4 vs -3, so black win by 0.5 in the end { 4 - (-3) - 6.5 komi}. (If you found odd that the total count are 360 stones, but there are 364 moves, it is because they run out of stones, so they had to exchange two prisoners during the final dame filling phase in order to finish the game)

The sgf record can be found here http://eidogo.com/#Pbj2YrFZ:0,364

BTW, this is also a game where the Japanese rule and the Chinese rule give different results. With 6.5 komi, the Japanese rule gives B+0.5, but with 7.5 komi in the Chinese rule, it is W+0.5 (or W+1/4 子 with Chinese half counting of total 184 black area => {184 - 3.75 - 180.5 = -0.25}). Also notice, this is not solely because the Chinese rule has more komi, but more to do with white plays the last move. In games where black plays the last move, the result might be the same (cases with seki and how the last ko is filled can raise more tricky situations and differences).

I have been playing Go with my friend (who has a Chess background) for a while now. We started on 19x19 boards but he found it really overwhelming and struggled. He wanted to switch to 9x9 and we have now played several 9x9 games.

These games are just for fun and I don't think he has much intention of ever playing seriously, so it doesn't really matter, but I feel like the skils developed playing 9x9 are really not all that applicable to a real game other than just basic life/death, some endgame stuff, etc.

I started on a full sized board, and I ran a successful club where we started beginners off on full sized boards, so I don't really know how others do it. What do you think about starting beginners off on 9x9? When do you think they should transition to larger boards?

I've come across "diagram" in translations from Chinese weiqi sources, but I'm not sure what is meant by this. Would the usual term in English be something like game record/kifu, opening patterns/fuseki, patterns generally or an idea that's not got an easy translation?

It's apparently translated in Chinese-English Dictionary of Weiqi Terms but I don't have access to that.

This is a game played on June 19 between Ueno Asami (as black) and Fujisawa Rina (as white). At move 159, Asami cut with K14.

It involves a followup of the life and death of the white group M10, and most human players would be able to judge it, but AI (from Golaxy to Katago) all seem to deem it "alive" and continue to fight without securing the life of that group first. While a human player can read out the sequence like Rina did during the game and make the right choice.

But it takes like 10k+ playouts before AI realize the K14 cut is a very good move, and (with few playouts AI even judges K14 as a blunder). And it takes millions of playouts before AI realizes the M10 white group is in trouble.

What other AI blindspots and hallucinations have you seen in real games?

I've been using AI to review my games for a while, but how do you personally use AI to learn?

I've found it really helpful in strengthening my joseki as well as general game-sense/intuition. Re-training myself on which moves feel correct.

One weird result has been that a lot of my intuitions that I used to brush away in favor of moves that I felt were more big-brained, turned out to be the moves that the AI prefers. So I'm having to work through when I'm overthinking moves.

The main problem I find is that it is so much better than I am that I can't understand the logic sometimes - so I walk away with "Well, that move was just better, I guess" and fail to get a good understanding.

Kids are creative, and smart kids will get bored very quickly, even if repeat exercises are necessary practice for them.

(There is no badukshitposting community on lemmy. Maybe we should accommodate more diverse posts here).

I've heard of the "carving" about weiqi, but never actually saw it, or even saw a picture of it till I start researching the history.

The report in the link was written by the head of the Luoyang Weiqi Museum, so I am farily confident the authetisty of the pictures she took. And I will make a brief translation and introduction below:

First of all, these carvings are called 畫像石. a very specific styles of carvings used in the Han Dynasty China (the 2nd century BC to the 2nd century AD). So very high confident it is of its time.

Here are the overall picture of the stone the carving is from

The dimension is 254 cm in length, 85 cm in height, and 26 cm thick, weight more than 1000 kg.

We can see other recreation activities next to the "博弈", people were dancing and playing some kind of instrument (likely some kind of drum, or bell).

There are other carvings of some daily activities in the back of the stone as well

In the close up shot, we can see there are two types of game boards carved on the stone, one is Go in the front, and another smaller board on the side, called 博 (where only recently we've uncovered the actual game board for it), and Go has been associated with it for a very long time - "博弈". We are certain they were both quite prominate during the Han Dynasty (probably more for 博 than weiqi).

Very hard to make out the number of lines on the carving, it degraded quite a bit. But it is for sure more than 9 lines or 13 lines, and on the range at least 15 plus even up to 19. (simply cannot tell for sure, and cannot rule out the original stone worker made it incorrectly to begin with)

Original Article here: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20230606/k10014091431000.html?fbclid=IwAR0VyKkbUUeqNqmdexOtwGMaDhgBRVqv7wpzVBQ8i7Cts7GQrEVxuA1a7lc_aem_th_ARJ4Nk1RqOw4FpfYqtNx7YcPfAXpfqtdmLKWdoB2LVHS-xALYoh3ruEBhulQ7JnRN30

Posted on 6th June 2023.

Not really a Go incident but it became a big issue in the Go world in Japan since Go and Shogi are closely related. Since it happened to Shogi it may very well happen to Go as well.

Do you think the incident could've been prevented?

Full article:

It has been revealed that the student who won this year's "Student Meijin Tournament," where the winner is granted qualification to participate in certain professional shogi competitions, has been disqualified for violating tournament regulations by using a shogi AI app during the game.

According to the All Japan Student Shogi Federation, the organizer of the "Student Meijin Tournament," after the final match held in Tokyo on the 4th, some participants raised concerns about the male student who emerged victorious, stating that "there were too many instances of absence from the board during the game and requested an investigation."

Subsequently, the federation conducted an inquiry with the student in question and discovered that he had possessed a smartphone with the power on during the game. It was found that he had used a shogi AI app that inputs the game position and suggests the best moves during the final and semifinal matches.

According to the tournament regulations, electronic devices should be turned off during the game, and the use of mobile phones during absence from the board is not permitted. It is specified that violators who are found to have used shogi software during the game will be disqualified.

As a result of the deliberation, the male student was disqualified, and the runner-up student was promoted to the winner's position.

According to the federation, the male student has not provided detailed explanations regarding the matter.

The "Student Meijin Tournament" is a competition that determines the top student shogi player in Japan. It has a history of 79 years and is sponsored by the Japan Shogi Association. The winner is granted qualification to participate in the "Asahi Cup Shogi Open Tournament" aimed at professional shogi players.

The All Japan Student Shogi Federation, in response to an inquiry from NHK, stated, "We have a belief in trusting the participants, so it is disappointing and surprising. We will deal strictly with any misconduct."

Portrayal of the Physician Hua Da Scraping the Bone of Guan Yu to Treat an Arrow Wound (Hua Da hone o kezurite Guan Yu ya-kizu o ryoji suru zu), Utagawa Kuniyoshi, 1853

"Guan Yu was once injured in the left arm by a stray arrow which pierced through his arm. Although the wound healed, he still experienced pain in the bone whenever there was a heavy downpour. A physician told him, "The arrowhead had poison on it and the poison had seeped into the bone. The way to get rid of this problem is to cut open your arm and scrape away the poison in your bone." Guan Yu then stretched out his arm and asked the physician to heal him. He then invited his subordinates to dine with him while the surgery was being performed. Blood flowed from his arm into a container below. Throughout the operation, Guan Yu feasted, consumed alcohol and chatted with his men as though nothing had happened." (Wikipedia)

I'm not entirely sure how Go plays into this story, but it's a wild print that shows Minamoto no Yorimitsu, who had apparently been in the middle of a game of Go, fighting the legendary Yōkai Tsuchigumo (土蜘蛛, i.e. Earth/Dirt Spider), a giant spider demon that lives in the earth.

I'm not sure why so many fights broke out while samurai were playing Go in feudal Japan. But, Minamoto no Yorimitsu is Minamoto no Yoshitsune's (whose retainer, Sato Tadanobu, beat a bunch of samurai to death with a floor goban) great, great, great, great, great uncle (5th great uncle), so it must run in the family.

This is from an exhibit at the Suzhou museum last year. The topic of the exhibit is - "Restoration of Peace, the Four Faces of Han Dynasty Civilization", about archeological finds from Han Dynasty China near Suzhou.

The stones are made of a type of glass and not necessary "black and white" but blue and slightly yellow white. (or they might have been darker and lighter, but the colors degraded or changed over time). It was found in a tomb of a Han dynasty high royal prince. They didn't find a board, but a cloth with lines drawn on it and too degraded to know how many lines it was.

So it is possible that we didn't find many old game boards (or older than Han dynasty), not due to out of luck (or as some suggested Go was invented in Han dynasty), but because ancient players faced the same issue we are, and find it impractical to carry giant wood or stone slaps as gobans, and chose lighter materials like cloth or leather and draw grid on them as the board. Much cheaper and easier to produce.

@baduk What made the difference for you to get to and below 10kyu?

I'm hovering around 13k on OGS, sometimes dipping close to 10 but never feeling like i can quite 'level up'. There's a lot to study in terms of joseki and life and death problems, but its hard to know where to focus. I feel lately that holding onto sente is super important but in the early and mid games its very difficult to tell what region of the board to even be playing to cause a reaction in my opponent. Tips?

First published in 1855, Sato Tadanobu Bravely Resisting Arrest (左藤忠信勇戦芳時が勢を移る圖) depicts a man fighting off a number of attackers with a Goban. But who was he and what is his story?

Satō Tadanobu (佐藤 忠信) was a samurai in service of Minamoto no Yoshitsune who lived between 1161AD and 1186AD. There are two accounts of his death, but which one is real may not be as important to us as which makes for the better story.

The first part of the story is the same in both accounts and is recorded in the Gikeiki (義経記, or Chronicle of Yoshitsune) and involves Tadanobu retreating with his master Minamoto no Yoshitsune's forces to Kyushu, fleeing the advance of his half-brother Minamoto no Yoritomo's army. Sato, serving as rearguard with a few of his men, aided the retreat by donning Yoshitsune's armor and, acting in disguise as Yoshitsune, killing twenty of his pursuers. Though his companions died in the fight, Tadanobu escaped and continued on to Kyoto to take refuge in the house of a woman he knew there.

This is where the stories diverge, and where the subject of this painting comes from:

Telling #1: While staying at his acquaintance's house, he was discovered and attacked. He committed seppuku before he could be captured alive.

Telling #2: Sato Tadanobu was enjoying a game of Go at his acquaintance's house, when he was suddenly attacked by Yoritomo's men. Unable to reach his weapons, he grabbed the Goban he was playing on and proceeded to single-handedly beat a number of armed and armored samurai to death with it before he was able to reach his weapons and commit seppuku, thus evading capture by the overwhelming force.

In the Kabuki plays (such as Yoshino Shizuka Goban Tadanobu and Yoshitsune Senbon Zakura) and Ukiyo prints inspired by this event, Tadanobu is implied to be a Genkurō (fox spirit) due to his cunning impersonation of Yoshitsune.

And if you haven't played yet, what's stopping you?

I found Gomagic from the YouTube channel of the same name. It's a really nice way to do high to mid-kyu Go problems (there's a 9k - 1k section under development too). They have a wide variety of types and it walks you through a bunch of different skills.

The downside is you only get a limited number of free problem sets each day if you don't pay for a subscription, but it's like 15 free sets of 5-6 problems per day or something pretty generous.

Great tutorial for anyone who wants to learn how to play. Gomagic does a great job with all their videos.

Breakdown of Lee Sedol's famous ladder game