this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

The "man or bear in the woods" question is obvious ragebait. Thinking people don't entertain hyperbolic hypotheticals that are proposed to sow divisive rhetoric.

The gender war is a psy-op proxy for the class war.

::: To be clear, I'm a proponent of market-socialism economically who wants a functional federal republic like we're supposed to have on paper. I am not a "tankie", nor do I want anything to do with them.

When I say "class war", I say we fight it with the ballot, and a gun if it gets ugly to the point of no recourse (that is still far away, thankfully).

I mean, what the fuck are people gonna do against Predator drones with Hellfires? Be vaporized as cannon fodder? We'd be gullible rubes for the whims of the "enlightened LeAdErS of the People's Revolution", that's what. :::

[–] auzy@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

Pretty much.

In hiking groups, certain people bring it up, and it's the kind of people you expect.

The rest of us just go hiking

[–] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

There's also a TON left unsaid in it. Is the man armed? are you armed? Is it a hiking path? Is it the middle of the forest? Are you camping or just walking? what kinda bear? is the bear just walking or is it attacking?

[–] lady_maria@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You're overthinking it; those questions are totally irrelevant to the point. Though, to be fair, the question doesn't exactly specify this at face value.

It's really just a thought experiment: would you rather take your chances, alone, with a random bear/man in the woods? You don't get a weapon. You dont get to choose which man or which bear, or what they do. It's a gamble.

[–] redisdead@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

If I'm in the woods, it's because I don't need nor want human interaction. Please pick the bear and leave me the fuck alone thanks.

[–] Brodysseus@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Or discourse like that could be why young men are choosing the right.

[–] blarth@thelemmy.club 2 points 6 days ago (3 children)

They are choosing it because Theo Von / Shane Gillis / Tony Hinchcilff / Dana White / Joe Rogan / UFC / Russian propaganda / random MAGA streamers.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 days ago

All of whom thrive on stuff like man vs bear discourse

[–] Brodysseus@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

I think it's too complex to attribute to one thing, I think you're right that the alt right social media pipeline is real and an issue.

I'm just saying I understand not identifying with a group who trash an identity a person belongs to. They just disengage. Nobody likes being put into a box that paints them as a villain.

Just my opinion of course, the left (as a social group) can examine the current discourse and try to adjust, maybe like framing it as a class struggle or a liberty struggle, or continue being divisive and risk being overridden.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 days ago

Trump learned how to win friends and influence people from Carnegie. People just want to feel heard, doesn't matter what you say back to them. It's essentially slight-of-hand, but for feelings and emotions.

All those other guys know a cashcow when they see one.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

This is a graph showing that a fair number of them actually just chose the bear.

[–] untorquer@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

That statistic makes sense when considering less of the liberal and/or left turned out while the right held their numbers. Guess the right is more effective at getting their youth to participate in the system while the left in this age range are more disenfranchised every generation.

[–] ramble81@lemm.ee 172 points 1 week ago (6 children)

When Harris was nominated, I told a friend of mine that my biggest fear was it was going to energize racists and sexists because she was black and a woman. I though she was great candidate, but the level of racism and sexism in this county is beyond insane.

[–] Jessica@discuss.tchncs.de 82 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Well it's a good thing your worries were unfounded then because Trump got 72 million votes in 2020, and as of right now he's got those same 72 million votes in 2024. 10 million or so democrats sat out this election compared to 2020 and that's why Harris lost.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 37 points 1 week ago

He should have lost a few million considering the sheer number of his supporters that earned Herman Cain awards.

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[–] BobGnarley@lemm.ee 33 points 1 week ago

It was actually because they gaslit people into believing that Biden was a competent candidate until like 3 months before the damn election.

THEN didn't even hold a primary.

And then let Kamala Harris completely train wreck the campaign and say shit like 18-24 year olds were stupid (notice how most of those votes from men for trump were around that age?) And sure, the video was taken out of context but she did say it and these dumb fucks didn't care what the context was when they see that clip droning on their TikToks and shit.

America does have a racism and sexism problem but to tell yourself that that is the only reason she lost this election would be lying to yourself in a very major way.

I did vote for her too, btw. First time I ever voted. But Jesus Christ the democrats just seem like they don't want to win at this point.

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[–] Monstrosity@lemm.ee 103 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

This isn't going to be popular, but part of the problem is not acknowledging that 42%. It's fucking insulting, frankly. Plenty of women voted for the bear.

EDIT: In light of reports of tons of guys saying "your body my choice" and shit, I actually regret writing this & everything below.

Like, what the fuck, boys?

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 80 points 1 week ago (43 children)

52% of white women voted for trump.

Chances are that many of the people crying about men voting trump, are part of a demographic that mostly voted trump.

Trump apparently won the popular vote anyway. Most of everyone who voted, voted trump. But let's focus on men and then be surprised that young men who are very insecure about themselves anyway, feel attacked by the left and choose the right.

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[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 80 points 1 week ago (12 children)

WHITE WOMEN CHOSE THE DUDE THIS ELECTION AND THE DUDE WAS TRUMP

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[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 76 points 1 week ago (18 children)

God, the whole of Lemmy is such a meme right now; the majority of women voted Trump as well!

Lmao!...

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

Not true, but nearly half of them did

[–] leadore@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The majority of White women voted for him 53% to 45% (not sure what percent of those are in the evangelical christian demographic).

Women overall voted against him 53% to 45%. Funny how those numbers were the exact opposite. Anyway it was a smaller margin than Dems were hoping/expecting from women.

source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls

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[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 74 points 1 week ago

That seems bang on average for the entire country. If anything that suggests to me that men in that age group are less susceptible to trumps influence since other age ranges of men were in the 60s and 70s

[–] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 50 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean, it sounds to me like men also chose the bear. Why did they choose the bear, is it because they're stupid? Probably not, they likely just thought their odds were better with the bear.

Dropping the metaphor, and looking in the cold light of day, those young men saw a better future under Trumpler than Harris. Articles signaled this well before, and nothing was done to address it.

Will their future be better - probably not. Can they be made to think their future is better, that's a tough one. Remember, you can trick one group of people into thinking they have more rights by stripping the rights of those around them.

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[–] JeffKerman1999@sopuli.xyz 50 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well, there's still 42% who voted for Harris. What's wrong with them?

[–] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 48 points 1 week ago (68 children)

Nothing is wrong with them, but I get not wanting to gamble with thos odds.

Especially when, according to the national park service, "when bear encounters do happen, they are most often nonviolent". So if you had to gamble...

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[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

That is women literally choosing the bear (by not voting or who voted Trump, same thing).

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