this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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No one should have to “grow a thicker skin”: Valorant studio commit to harsh penalties for harassment (www.rockpapershotgun.com)
submitted 5 months ago by Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world to c/gaming@lemmy.ml
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[–] krashmo@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

People do need thicker skin though. So much internet drama is magnified beyond reason by people who can't just ignore assholes. That's not excusing the fact that they're being assholes. Obviously if they would stop being assholes that would be the ideal solution. However, we all know that will never happen. No amount of legislation, moderation, or punishment will ever remove that tendency from people. It is fundamental human nature. Stop fighting a losing battle. Learn how to block people and move on with your life. If you stop engaging they'll get bored and leave you alone. They thrive on your reaction so stop giving them one.

At the end of the day it's your job to protect yourself in all aspects of life, including online. Stop trying to outsource it to software developers. They gave you all the tools you need decades ago.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Did you click through to the actual clip?

It's not that I entirely disagree, but it's not a black-vs-white thing. Some ribbing is understandable, after all it's a competitive environment. But the explicitly misogynist, hateful, threatening and illegal needs to be harshly dealt with, to make players understand that it's an absolutely 0 tolerance police and you will fuck yourself up if you try.

No player should have to go through having to shrug off rape threats.

Learn how to block people and move on with your life.

That's what we want the game makers to do, yes.

[–] krashmo@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Why do game makers need to be the responsible party? I've never played a game that didn't let you block and/or mute people you're playing with. That doesn't make assholes disappear but it stops the problem from impacting you. Why add a middleman to the equation? Taking care of it yourself is much faster and doesn't depend on convincing someone else that what's happening needs to be dealt with. You can block people for having the wrong favorite color if you want to.

There's too much inconsistency in what people perceive to be inappropriate behavior for a central authority to have the final say on the matter. Moderator action should be reserved for situations that explicitly violate the law, and even that varies significantly based on location and interpretation. It's much simpler to let players decide what they will tolerate on their own.

[–] Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Why do game makers need to be the responsible party? I've never played a game that didn't let you block and/or mute people you're playing with. That doesn't make assholes disappear but it stops the problem from impacting you. Why add a middleman to the equation?

Because the devs/mods have the power to at least attempt to remove the person from the game before anyone else has to suffer their comments.

It's much simpler to let players decide what they will tolerate on their own.

It's pretty simple to enable mod actions, too. Game devs make a list of rules about what you can and can't say. You agree to those rules when you start playing the game. Breaking the rules earns you a punishment. If you don't like it, you don't play the game. If the rules are unfairly restrictive then people won't play the game and it will fail. This is how internet moderation has worked since forever.

[–] krashmo@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago

Yes that is how moderation has worked in some places in the past. It's also been historically unpaid volunteer work and not particularly effective, especially at large scales. Most of the people here have at least one story about bad moderation on reddit precisely because that kind of moderation is inefficient and heavily influenced by the personal bias of the moderator reviewing a report. You still needed to block people on a regular basis if you wanted to both participate and avoid harassment from a subset of users. That's how it is all over the internet and there is nothing that can be done to completely remove that element of online activity. Hence the need for thicker skin.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Again, did you click through and watch the actual clip? Rape threats are against the law in many/most jurisdictions.

[–] krashmo@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm not a lawyer but it is my understanding of US law that something like what you see in the video does not meet the legal definition of a threat. There is no indication that the offender knows the real identity or location of the person they are speaking to, both of which are required to establish the intent necessary to define something as a threat in the legal sense of the word. Furthermore, the person speaking appears to be from another country, likely the UK or Australia, both of which have different laws than the US. Is Riot supposed to evaluate this situation based on the laws of the country in which they have their corporate HQ, the country the speaker resides in, or the country in which the listener resides? I don't think a lawyer in any of those three countries would advise this streamer to press charges based on the content of this video alone which would indicate that this kind of behavior is not illegal. Perhaps it should be, but that's another matter entirely.

To reiterate, none of this is meant to be interpreted as a defense of what that guy said. It's just to illustrate the point that moderation is not a simple thing to enforce even in situations where a surface level evaluation seems like it should be. It's much simpler to mute this guy or leave the lobby or whatever else you feel like you need to do to protect yourself. The unfortunate reality remains that people like this will always be around no matter what system is in place to minimize their impact. That's not to say that no steps should be taken with that goal in mind, just that when all is said and done you will always bear some responsibility in protecting yourself from content or behavior you don't want to be exposed to.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If you can play from say the UK, and you pay money for the game or access to it's Internet or components, they are doing business in the UK, and hence their business, business interactions and everything are subject to UK laws.

Seriously, we let companies get away with too much. If you provide public spaces, you are responsible for some degree of safety in/on them, and that includes certain personal safety, protection from libel, slander and threats. Likewise if you do business in a country and can make money from customers there, you are responsible for adhering to those countries laws. Want to do business in >200 countries? Yeah, you now have to adhere to >200 sets of laws.

Now you could say "But it'd suck if so many companies no longer release their products globally!". Sure. OTOH, it sucks much more that companies shirk responsibilities constantly. Companies are supposed to be like persons. So like a person, require them to adhere to local laws and show at least some degree of decency.

And no, it's ridiculous to assume someone should take steps to protect themselves. It's a failure of society that we have to do that for something as deranged as online rape or death threats. Because we let both the aggressor and the conductor get away with it, exactly in the way you do, by immediately putting the onus onto the victim.

[–] Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

I cannot get behind the sentiment of "online communication is awful so we shouldn't even attempt to do anything about it." Yeah at some point you have to learn to shake it off to protect yourself, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't make any effort to moderate online spaces as well. Don't give assholes quarter in your game if you want to retain your community.

You can't remove the suck from people, but you can remove the people from your community.