this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024

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Recommendations for (european) multi-language use (sopuli.xyz)

submitted 2 months ago by fairchild@sopuli.xyz to c/mechanicalkeyboards@lemmy.ml

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Hi! New to all of this, but I've been following the community for a while and wanted to finally get my hands on a board after having figured out what (I think) I like. Still have some questions concerning multiple-language use case. I read through some of the posts on here but couldn't find a lot so I thought I will just ask...

So far, following one comment, I guess it would be best to go with anANSI layout and learn how to use US International layout, since the (Keychron) Keyboard I currently eyeball is also difficult to get as ISO fully assembled in the color option I want, ordering from Europe. I need this to run on Linux and I guess there's no way around getting into key mapping.

I do work with several langues, so I would need at minimum Latin and Cyrillic alphabet, additionally some characters of Nordic, Slavic, Germanic and Romanic languages, so basically a lot of diacritics, but also a few extra characters such as ø, ß, ł. However, from what I read US International might not work with for instance Czech, which is a huge problem for me (š, č, ž, ů etc.). Anyone on here with experience and/or solutions regarding this?
For those of you owning and using a Keychron on Linux, is keymapping a no-brainer? (I hope my biggest issue with this will just be using a Chromium-based Browser xD) --> If Keychron isn't advised, any ideas on other Keyboards supporting key mapping, preferably manufactured in and shipped from Europe. (metal body, 80%, wired, media knob, possibly macros, price point less important)
Also looking for recommendations on where to buy aesthetically pleasing Latin/Cyrillic Keycaps! Preferably Europe-based Vendors and no sketchy and cheap (possibly toxic) chinese products.

Thanks a lot!

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[–] al4s 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

For european languages I usually recommend learning using an ANSI keyboard and using the EurKey layout (I installed it on Linux/Mac/Win and Android for a hardware keyboard without any issues). That way you have a larger choice in custom keyboards and a lot of Keyboard shortcuts make more sense (because software usually seems to be written for ANSI keyboards).

But I'm not sure how that would go with Cyrillic.

[–] al4s 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Here's a link to the EurKey website: https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

so ANSI is the way to go. Thanks for the Link, will check it out later

[–] DarkFox@pawb.social 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

How did you get it for Android? The dead keys on the international layout are driving me mad!

[–] al4s 2 points 2 months ago

I think the app I used was called "more physical keyboard layouts" or something like that. It's for connecting physical keyboards though. Never felt the need to have it for the virtual keyboard, since you have all of the weird letters behind a long press anyways.

[–] RedSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

With the large number of languages you are working with, I think it is worth spending a bit of time creating your own layout. The AltGr layer is where you'll want most of your changes.

On Wayland this is not too difficult to do. On X11, skip the headache and modify the system file.

This is my current Alt layer, mostly for French, with Spanish also being easy enough. My main layer is mostly UK/US alphas. This is on a split 42 keys keyboard but the concept is the same.

If there are some characters that you use very rarely, don't forget you can probably get them with a Compose sequence. For example, I forgot the ß when I redesigned the layer, but I can still get it with Compose + s + s.

I previously switched from ISO to ANSI and it doesn't change much. If you make your own layout it doesn't matter. I think you have an extra key in ISO.

Keycaps? I use blanks. But there are a lot of EU vendors. I can point to a few later.___

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm on Wayland. I still fear this part of the process XD but I usually figure things out somehow. There are indeed some characters I only use here and there, so the soultion might work for those cases, thanks for letting me know about your Layout. So what are the techniques to add characters to blank caps? Maybe DIYing would be an idea for the Latin/Cyrillic issue. I'd like some green/brown/yellow combo so maybe I'll just buy a bunch and see what I can do from there.

[–] RedSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Here's a list of vendors. https://wiki.keyboard.gay/VENDORS.html#continental-europe I've used Delta Keys, Oblotsky and 42Keebs. All good.

Edit: another list https://kbd.news/vendors/Europe

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago

Perfect! I know what I will be busy with over the weekend :)

[–] RedSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

https://github.com/y-muller/personal_configs/tree/main/xkb My notes about customising the keyboard in Wayland. It's brief but should get you started. And if you look around the repo, you might find a few other ideas. ;)

I keep my keycaps blank. It's simpler that way. I made pictures, as above, to help at first.

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago

Thx for sharing, this might come in handy for a start!

I get the idea about blank caps and simplicity, I even considered this myself for a while but it just won't be useful when working between Latin/Cyrillic on one task or for longer periods of time on one of each and then switching. At least my experience.

If I remember right, there was even some post about DIYing somewhere on here, I need to take a look through the posts again.

[–] RedSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Keychron ships from China even if you order on a site in Europe. But it is quick and all charges are already included. I like their keyboards. The V series is very nice for the price.

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago

I'm not 100% sure I should go with one of their Keyboards then. Also had some other EU based company that I really liked after doing a bunch of research on this, but I lost all my notes about the whole process and haven't been able to track it down since. Would appreciate the links, if you can find the time later

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm French Canadian. I just use a US keyboard and learned where the French keys are on the frca layout and I don't need to look at the keyboard. I've gotten so good that typing on a CMS keyboard is awkward for me.

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

How long did it take you to get used to it? I'm sure it will be same here once all is set up in a convenient way and some time has passed.

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

I grew up with it, at school we would use the CMS keyboard but at home we had ANSI keyboards, so all my homework was done on that keyboard using an fr-ca layout. You just eventually re-map the keys in your head.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm using linux too, and have boards that use the same firmware as Keychron, QMK w/ VIA compatibility. Configuring them is a no-brainer, you just need a WebHID-capable browser for https://usevia.app , which will likely be a chromium browser.

Regarding layout, you just keep the default ANSI layout on it, then change the locale via localectl to whatever you want, E.g. fi or hu, and it will assume the layout based on the ANSI mapping.

Just one thing, if you are eyeing an ISO layout, the key next to the ISO enter has to be NUHS.

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Which boards do you own? I spent all evening going through the vendor lists provided elswhere here in the comment section, and well, now I lost track of what I initially wanted as there's just too many options... XD

Now I'm leaning more towards a 65 ANSI Layout, and more and more intrigued building my own.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I own several.

If you go the build your own route, I can highly recommend the NEO series. They are fairly cheap, very good quality, short turnaround for manufacturing. They are easy to build as well, and have most everything included already. All you'd need is a set of keycaps and switches.

Comes in 65, 70, 80 and ergo layouts currently, but who knows what else they will release next. Check regional vendors for availability.

[–] fairchild@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

I've had my eyes on the Neos already, but they feel a bit too chunky for my liking even though quality seems great.

Thought more of soldering and maybe even cutting a case out of a block of wood instead of kits. Think I know the direction I'm going now and ordered some stuff, thanks for your input nevertheless!!