this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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[–] Railing5132@lemmy.world 134 points 2 months ago (13 children)

I will die on the hill that Bluetooth always has and always will suck ass. Pairing sucks. Latency sucks. Random-ass disconnects suck. Fuck Bluetooth in the neck sideways with a rusty screwdriver.

[–] tonyn@lemmy.ml 72 points 2 months ago (4 children)

The bluetooth antennas on your devices have sucked. I have no problems with my pixel 7 pro. Pairs quickly, play music from across the house, through walls and floors even. Previous phones of mine would lose connection to my bluetooth headphones if my.phone was on the wrong hip, obviously an antenna issue.

[–] ggppjj@lemmy.world 66 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Until we can finally kill HSP/HFP, I'm never gonna be happy with Bluetooth. Using a headset mic shouldn't blast you back to the telephone era.

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[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 39 points 2 months ago
[–] Artyom@lemm.ee 37 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Don't forget that the data bandwidth is so low it can't play higher quality mp3s.

[–] rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio 37 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Depends on the particular device. LDAC has been around for years and supports higher bitrates than mp3s (assuming we're putting 320kbps mp3s in the "higher quality" category)

[–] vividspecter@lemm.ee 18 points 2 months ago

LDAC is a very inefficient codec, and isn't lossless even at its highest bitrate. But they are all close to perceptually lossless even at relatively low bitrates so it's a much of muchness.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 2 months ago

I have had no pairing issues with anything since 5.0. Also, a good set of buds 5.2 or more doesn't have much lag. I wouldn't pc game with it, but beyond that it's good. Vlc let's you easily offset audio and whatever netflix does stays synced real nice for me.

[–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

Bought a Bluetooth headset 5 years ago, never had a problem with it 🤷 fuck cables

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Buy cheap shit, get shit results.

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[–] subtext@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I mean my AirPods are fantastic. I think they’re great at playing my podcasts and I’ve not had any problems with random disconnects. Granted I’ve only ever used them with my phone but still.

[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Shiny new AirPods + shiny new iPhone = minimal issues. Certainly preferable to cords for many, even if no dongle were required for many corded headphones.

In fact AirPods + iPhones have been all but rock solid for years, at least since first gen kinks were worked out… so five years worth of high reliability.

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[–] MisterD@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Apple uses a modified version of Bluetooth

Edit: for Apple-only version

[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Every version of Bluetooth since 1.0 has been a modified version of Bluetooth.

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[–] flames5123@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Exactly. I just click a button on my laptop and it pairs. Start playing a video on my phone? It instantly jumps to my phone. No lag, no pairing waiting. Didn’t want that? Click the “connect” button on the laptop bc it just noticed that it jumped to my phone. My Apple TV notices when the AirPods are around. Did I ever have to pair them to the Apple TV? No! They’re connected to my account and can see the other devices easily.

[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This shit right here is why people buy Apple. You sell your soul to the devil and get convenience in return.

Don't get me wrong - both my work laptop and my gaming PC run Linux. But my phone is still an iPhone and if I ever have need for a personal laptop again, it's gonna be a Macbook Air again.

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[–] scratchee@feddit.uk 82 points 2 months ago (9 children)

I just want a headset that doesn’t descend into hissing at me in mono over a crackly 1940s phoneline whenever I dare to use the microphone.

[–] exanime@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Check what BT profile your OS is switching the headset to (and what your headset can actually support). I use HSP/HFP with mSBC codec and it keeps pretty OK sound while in "headset mode"

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[–] 5oap10116@lemmy.world 67 points 2 months ago

No phone aux jack conspiracy has re-entered the conversation

[–] gashead76@lemmy.world 52 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Anyone know what kind location accuracy Bluetooth 5 currently has?

[–] limerod@reddthat.com 43 points 2 months ago (2 children)

According to the below two articles. It's 1-5 meters in optimal conditions. And some of it may require additional hardware for tracking.

https://www.u-blox.com/en/technologies/bluetooth-indoor-positioning

https://www.inpixon.com/technology/standards/bluetooth-low-energy

[–] ThirdWorldOrder@lemm.ee 19 points 2 months ago

In my case it’s about a football field lol

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[–] Korrok@lemmy.blahaj.zone 34 points 2 months ago (10 children)

Why would you need centimeter-level accuracy?

[–] realitista@lemm.ee 24 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Very nice for home automation- have your music and lights follow you around the house for example. Check out Room Assistant

[–] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sounds kind of like room-level accuracy

[–] realitista@lemm.ee 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yes, that's what they strive for today but generally are not able to achieve. Better accuracy on the tracker would allow better accuracy on the room tracking, since to do that you essentially need quite accurate triangulation. You've got to multiply the innacuracy of 3 trackers together and that's the innacuracy of the whole system. If each can be off by one meter, then you have a ~3 meter circle in which the thing can actually track you with confidence. Which is not enough to reliably say which room you are in. a 3cm circle would definitely be enough. Probably you could get by with up to 5-10 cm and still do pretty well.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So you know which sofa cushion the EarPod is under

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[–] ugjka@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

I lost my watch in snow in forest once. Had to use one of those finder apps, centimeter level accuracy would have saved 2 hours

[–] willougr@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

This is why I turn off Bluetooth before heading into the supermarket...

[–] CatZoomies@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (8 children)

No tinfoil hat needed. Retail stores are equipped with bluetooth beacons that tracks and monitors customer behavior. This in turn can be sold for targeted advertising. Another scary thought is that the tracking is so precise, it measures the distance your phone is from a product, including height. How high is the phone from the ground? The data points can be extrapolated to influence product placement: what products and prices influenced a customer to bend down and look at/interact with the product? How long were they in close proximity with the product? Based on the phone’s orientation, were they bent down to look at or passing by the product (indicating that they stopped for a separate reason and not necessarily for the product)? Did they buy it? Were they looking for coupons in my “retail store app” while next to the product, or somewhere else in the store? Where do customers often stop or gather in order to browse through coupons? Could we place Y products there? Where should we put the product in stores to maximize sales? What ads can we send to them as they arrive at the store? Based on aggregated data with the rich profile we built for this customer, are they likely to sign up for our rewards credit card? What is this customer’s income level? Have they purchased X product recently? What part of town do they live in? What products are popular there? Et cetera ad nauseum.

Tracking is so predatory. Makes me look at my smart phone with disgust as the years go by, and I periodically grapple with the decision if a smart phone is even right for me or if it’s time to stick to a computer and a truly dumb phone going forward.

Some public info about Bluetooth beacons: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html

Want to find Bluetooth beacons? Simply install a Bluetooth scanner app from your phone and head to a store to see them.

Here’s how Shopify engages businesses on how to utilize Bluetooth beacons with their software package. Bought anything online? That site was most likely powered by Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/retail/the-ultimate-guide-to-using-beacon-technology-for-retail-stores

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[–] potustheplant@feddit.nl 11 points 2 months ago (7 children)

FindMy tags? Like the ones Pebblebee and Chipolo make.

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[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago

I'd like something like a ring or wristwatch that unlocks my PC when I'm close enough to the keyboard, and locks it again when I go away. For that tracking would be pretty good.

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[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 31 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Will this centimeter level tracking only work for paired devices or will retailers be tracking us even more closely now.

[–] willougr@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago
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[–] exanime@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago (6 children)

yes yes yes but... will I finally be able to boot my wife off the bathroom speaker so I can play my music without running around the house naked yelling at her to disconnect?!

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[–] CombatWombat1212@lemmy.ml 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Bet any money that it will still cut out and have latency issues

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[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 27 points 2 months ago (4 children)
[–] rigatti@lemmy.world 53 points 2 months ago (2 children)

When you read the article:

We also get latency improvements through Isochronous Adaptation Layer (ISOAL) Enhancement. This allows the Bluetooth device to cut larger data frames into smaller chunks while ensuring its timing information remains accurate. This would help reduce latency and potentially make Bluetooth audio devices a viable solution for wireless audio, especially in gaming.

That was unnecessarily snarky, but I couldn't help myself. I don't even know what any of that means or if it will actually actually reduce audio latency.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 23 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The "especially in gaming" bit is encouraging. That might mean they are finally, after 26 years, addressing the demand for good quality, low latency, multichannel, full duplex audio...

...but I won't hold my breath. They seem to think gaming means playing on hardware like this.

[–] Chozo@fedia.io 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

My layman's understanding (so please correct me if I'm wrong) is that BT audio works by taking the audio stream from your playing device, and breaks up pieces of that stream into small packets. These packets get sent individually to your speaker, which then plays them all seamlessly in order as they flow in. But because these packets have to be cut out from the main stream in the first place before they can be sent, you're always hearing something from just a few moments ago, as you can't start playing a packet until it's finished playing and transferring from the main device, first.

So by breaking these packets up into smaller pieces, you're reducing how far back your speaker is, chronologically-speaking. So let's just say that the current version of BT breaks up audio into 0.5-second increments (it doesn't, this is just an example). This means that every 0.5 seconds, your device snips a half-second of audio into a packet and sends it to your speaker, which then plays that packet. But the transfer takes time, too, so let's say 0.25 seconds to send (again, just made-up numbers for the sake of explaining the concept). So everything your speaker would be playing in this situation would be, at minimum, 0.75 seconds behind. Not a huge deal for listening to music, but it quickly gets out of sync with video content.

So pretend the new BT version instead breaks up the original audio into 0.1-second increments. So instead of generating 2 packets every second, it's generating 10. Even if we keep the same transfer rate of 0.25 seconds in mind, this reduces the delay from 0.75 seconds to 0.35, which puts the audio much closer into sync with video content.

[–] AlotOfReading@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Not bad, but you're missing that the Bluetooth device can report audio latency back to the source so it can delay anything that needs to synchronize. In practice there's half a dozen more buffers in between and a serious tradeoff between latency, noise sensitivity, and bandwidth.

[–] fossphi@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)
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[–] quinkin@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

improves device pairing

V6 seems a little soon for this unnecessary feature. Maybe push it back a few versions.

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[–] Defaced@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Does it improve the bandwidth so higher quality codecs can be used without having to switch between good quality sound and shitty mics to shitty sound and good mics? I mean seriously, we're in 2024 and we still can't have quality parity with a wired headset when using Bluetooth because the bandwidth sucks so much ass that better codecs just can't be used. Bluetooth can die in a fucking fire.

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