this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2024
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    [–] ChojinDSL@discuss.tchncs.de 224 points 3 months ago (30 children)

    Immutable in this context refers to an OS that can't be changed while running. Steam deck does something like that. Basically the all of the OS system files are read only, so that the user or some malware can't Bork the system. The only parts that are writable are the users profile directory and the logs.

    You can still receive updates and install apps. It's just that that's handled a bit differently than with a standard OS.

    E.g. it could be that the OS provider only issues complete updates, and then you either have to reboot. This is the case with steam os on the steam deck. The System portion of the OS is mounted read only during use.

    [–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I'm no expert on this but I'm pretty sure the /etc directory is writeable too for config files, which sadly still allows a user or malware to still bork the system if they get superuser privilege

    [–] fullstackhipster@awful.systems 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    I find it hard to imagine a system that is not borkable by a superuser. Maybe it's helpful to think of immutable setups as harder to bork by accident during routine maintenance (e.g. through faulty updates) and more resilient to bad code (through containerization).

    [–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

    good point, that's fair. The reason I think it bears mentioning is that editing configs under /etc/ is totally something we might expect a user to do. So you could follow a tutorial online that is wrong or outdated and with enough bad luck, tada, you bricked your "immutable" system. Or, less dramatic and more likely, something doesn't work as intended anymore and you don't know how to restore to the original config from when you installed.

    [–] fullstackhipster@awful.systems 8 points 3 months ago

    You're right that "immutable" is a bit of a misnomer in that regard, and it's been argued that "atomic" is a more fitting term.

    And I agree that a lot of documentation and how-to-guides don't account for immutable setups (yet?), which can get novice users especially in a lot of trouble.

    Personally, I prefer a declarative system (NixOS) that solves this problem rather cleanly and gives me most benefits of so-called immutable distros as well.

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