this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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I was wondering if there were systems in place for users to report mods who are just ignoring the code of conduct and just abusing their power of moderator as a whole?

I've seen that we could get in touch via Mastodon, but I don't have an account for that unfortunately and I was curious to know if there were other ways

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[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 1 points 1 week ago (22 children)

I asked, "Can you link me to the UN report where they found there was no genocide, and the so-called victims were millionaires?" You sent me a report. It doesn't say there was no genocide, and it doesn't say the so-called victims were millionaires. I realize you're saying that a reasonable person can read the report and conclude that obviously there is no genocide at all, but I don't completely agree with that. I'm allowed to not agree with you. That's not "fighting."

I'm really not trying to be hard to talk to or get you riled up. What you describe as "fighting" or refusing to absorb the information you are providing, I view as just healthy skepticism. If you run way, way ahead of your sources by painting a huge picture, you are completely correct that I'm going to refuse to become passive and let you educate me and believe everything you say. I'm going to take a step back and say, "Well, okay, I get what you're saying, but what is your backing?" I can do that even if I'm not that familiar with the topic. The fact that you're so upset that I'm not just believing everything you say is weird to me.

A few detail points:

That is why the accusers use language like “forced sterilization” to describe the insertion of IUDs

This is not accurate. Forced sterilizations, forced insertion of IUDs, and forced abortions are measured as separate things, although they're sometimes talked about as the related issues that they are. It's in section 108 which I already quoted.

It is important to critically interrogate this claim. What did the OHCHR report provide as evidence? What are they specifically referring to as sterilization?

Why are you so skeptical, now, of the source that you provided? It's either trustworthy, when it says that women are being sterilized against their will, or it isn't. I generally trust the UN, and it seems well-sourced, and you were the one that provided it in the first place, so I see no reason to assume that "sterilization" means something other than sterilization.

and wide-scale destruction of mosques,

This did not happen and the OHCHR repory does not make this claim. Take note of the limited examples provided and follow the rabbit hole of sourcing. It will be revealing.

Yes it does. It's in sections 85 and 86. I picked one of the rabbit-holes of sourcing, and found https://uhrp.org/report/demolishing-faith-the-destruction-and-desecration-of-uyghur-mosques-and-shrines/, which said "The Chinese government’s current crackdown in the Uyghur region is aimed at eliminating Uyghur ethnocultural identity and assimilating them into an undifferentiated “Chinese” identity. As one of the cornerstones of their identity, Uyghurs’ Islamic faith has been a major target of this campaign, resulting in many Uyghurs being sent to the network of concentration camps. This campaign has also taken the form of eradicating tangible signs of the region’s Islamic identity from the physical landscape. This has involved the whole or partial demolition of an unprecedented number of mosques, including several historically significant buildings."

It is not the destruction of a people in whole or in part as described by the UN definition, which is obvious by simply comparing it to the report. There are not mass graves, there is no forced migration, children are not stolen, there is no substantial diaspora.

The UN definition of genocide is "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"

  1. Killing members of the group;
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I already said this: I'm not convinced either way. I read parts of the report, and took it seriously. It talks about forced sterilization and family separation, deaths in custody and executions, and other things that very clearly meet the numbered criteria. But is that being committed with intent to destroy the group as such? I don't really know. But I don't think that the UN putting together a report which describes it, but stops short of calling it genocide, means that it's conclusively proven that it is not genocide.

I'm losing my patience with this conversation, to be honest. It seems like your model is that you say things and I accept them, and I'm "fighting" if I don't. My model is going to be that I'm going to compare the things you say with things I can source, and see if the claims change or if the backing is solid, and then if after a couple rounds of that it seems like you're well in accordance with things outside of you that I can find, then okay, I become more trusting. If you're going to get offended by that, I think you're going to keep being offended by the conversation, and I think maybe this isn't going to be productive.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (4 children)

You're really demonstrating why it's easier to just remove comments like yours rather than try to disprove them when you're just going play Calvin Ball and argue in bad faith

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

“Another writer again agreed with all my generalities, but said that as an inveterate skeptic I have closed my mind to the truth. Most notably I have ignored the evidence for an Earth that is six thousand years old. Well, I haven’t ignored it; I considered the purported evidence and then rejected it. There is a difference, and this is a difference, we might say, between prejudice and postjudice. Prejudice is making a judgment before you have looked at the facts. Postjudice is making a judgment afterwards. Prejudice is terrible, in the sense that you commit injustices and you make serious mistakes. Postjudice is not terrible. You can’t be perfect of course; you may make mistakes also. But it is permissible to make a judgment after you have examined the evidence. In some circles it is even encouraged.”

—Carl Sagan, The Burden of Skepticism

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When I said:

I really did read the report. I don’t know all that much about Xinjiang, so it was informative for me to see it, so thank you.

And explained in some detail how I interpreted the report, I got in response:

The UN report you asked for and that I kindly, without thanks, provided, does so, as I have explained.

In the world I inhabit, people are allowed to make up their own minds about things. I explained how I took the report, and this person told me I took it wrong, and “explained” how was the correct way to take it, and demanded that I prove that there was a genocide going on, when I’d already said that after read the report I wasn’t really sure whether there was or not.

I’ve spent some time talking about this at this point, but ultimately, I am not interested in that type of interaction. I think enough words have been spent on this at this point. Have a good one.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

You were, and are, being deliberately disingenuous.

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