China is lifting people out of poverty, building out infrastructure, and transitioning to clean energy at breakneck speed. In minds of some people that's equivalent to being a serial killer. This is the state of western intellect.

[–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works -3 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Tell that to the Uyghurs China is trying to destroy that the media conveniently forgot about.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 13 hours ago

You mean that thing that didn’t happen?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I love how there are people dumb enough to keep parroting obvious propaganda that's been debunked to death already.

The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.

However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let's just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.

This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City's biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.

According to Wikipedia, "The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000." Let's assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?

Let's do some math:

Rikers Size	Rikers Prisoners	One Million Uyghurs Size
413.2 acres (0.645 square miles)	10,000 to 15,000	43 to 64 square miles

In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.

For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You'd literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It'd be like looking at a map of California. There's Los Angeles. There's San Diego. And look, there's San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.

Literally visible to the naked eye from space.

CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn't even make sense from logistics perspective.

Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he's the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I'm talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.

Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”

Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.

Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.

Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.

The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it's clear that the methodology of his "research" doesn't pass any kind of muster when examined closely.

It's also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here's George Bush's chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here's an excerpt:

US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they've been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/

Here's an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html

Here's an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on "atrocities" are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/

It's also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.

Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they're unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page.

God damn. I didn’t know the quiet parts had become that out loud. These people suck at their jobs.

“This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated.” No censorship here, though! 😂 Luckily Archive.org still gotchu:

.
Edit to add: I never heard of Factcheck Lab. They’re based out of Hong Kong. Unfortunately I can’t read a lick of Chinese.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 8 points 12 hours ago

I find the fact that these people don't even bother hiding what their actual goals are is the most phenomenal part. People just keep pretending how it's all about human rights or some bullshit, but here he is just straight up explaining exactly what's going on. The video getting taken down is pretty funny though. There goes my freeze peach!

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works -2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Close, but that metaphor was not equating either country with a serial killer, I was merely pointing out that one party's use of bombs does not necessarily make them worse than another party who does not use bombs. Sorry you're bad at reading

And also, it's not the infrastructure or clean energy that gets people to not like china, it's all the censorship and oppression

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

You were very clearly making a false equivalence there, trying to say that China is just differently bad from the US. All the oppression exists in the minds of western liberals who guzzle propaganda uncritically. Meanwhile, censorship exists everywhere, it's absolutely hilarious that westerners think that they got the level of censorship right while everyone else got it wrong. It's a perfect example of people suffering from anchoring bias thinking the rules of a society they grew up in is the natural default.