this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
128 points (99.2% liked)

Europe

1559 readers
299 users here now

News and information from Europe ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 5 months ago
MODERATORS
 

The move extends a ban on the practice inside the country to also include those who seek it out in places where it is legal, like the US or Canada. Those who break the law could face up to two years in prison and fines of up to โ‚ฌ1m (ยฃ835,710).

The law, proposed by the Italy's far-right governing party, is seen by critics to target LGBT couples - who are not allowed to adopt or use IVF in the country.

Surrogacy is when a woman carries a pregnancy for another couple or individual, usually due to fertility issues or because they are men in a same-sex relationship.

The law passed by 84 votes to 58 in Italy's senate on Wednesday.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] lapislazuli 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Commercial surrogacy is similar to prostitution... in theory a fair contract but in practice exploitation of poor women.

[โ€“] Saleh 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I am sure that this is not the reason why the Meloni government would ban it.

[โ€“] lapislazuli 6 points 1 month ago

Surely. This wasn't even their first attack on LGBT parents.

[โ€“] Vincent@feddit.nl 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In the Netherlands you're just not allowed to get paid for it, that seems like it would solve that part.

[โ€“] Summzashi@lemmy.one 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No way to prevent that though. Still happens.

[โ€“] Vincent@feddit.nl 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sure, but this ban won't improve on that either.

[โ€“] Summzashi@lemmy.one 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Uh yes it will. You can't really make a baby appear out of thin air you know. You're gonna get caught either way.

[โ€“] Vincent@feddit.nl 1 points 1 month ago

Not out of thin air, but you don't technically need much more than two people. There's a lot of help you can get that's useful, but you can get that abroad.

[โ€“] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Not really. With prostitution you agree to provide a service, right here and now, in the present. With surrogacy you agree to provide a service over months, a service which will either a) cause you to have a tight bond with a child, then be legally obliged to give it up even though you might want to keep it, or b) fuck you up psychologically trying to not establish that bond.

That is: People are capable of having meaningless sex. People aren't capable of bearing children without that being personally meaningful on a very fundamental level. Commodifying the first is meh, the latter, welcome to late stage capitalism where absolutely fucking everything is for sale.

[โ€“] lapislazuli 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Except that's not what I was talking about. I never said the activity was similar. I said it's similar in the way that both surrogacy and prostitution is an exploitation of poor women.

And btw even prostitutes can change their mind and revoke consent to a previously agreed upon activity.

[โ€“] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If we're talking solely exploitation of poor women then we have to add sewing in sweatshops to that list. The thing that make prostitution and surrogacy special is the degree of intimacy involved and, at least depending on person, prostitution is closer to sweatshops in that regard than to surrogacy. Not to mention that there's also a kid involved who didn't consent to anything at all. Adoption can be traumatic, with surrogacy that's done with premeditation.

And yes, at least according to German law contracts about sexual services aren't enforceable from the client side, you're not entitled to more than your money back. In countries without legal framework the situation is generally way more nasty. And just for completeness' sake: It's on the list of jobs the welfare office can't make you take up.