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Am I overthinking it? (reddthat.com)
submitted 4 months ago by Telorand@reddthat.com to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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I'm working on my transition plan away from Windows and testing out various things in VMs as I do so, and one big hurdle is making sure the VPN client my work requires can connect. Bazzite is my target distro (primarily gaming, work less frequently), though other more traditionally structured ones like Pop!_OS and Garuda are possibilities.

I'm currently trying and failing to get the VPN client working in a distrobox (throws an error during connection saying PPP isn't installed or supported by the kernel). However, I can successfully get the VPN connected if I overlay the client and its dependencies via rpm-ostree install, but I read somewhere that Bazzite's philosophy is to use rpm-ostree as sparingly as possible for installing software to preserve as much containerization as possible.

Since I can get it working outside of a container, am I overthinking it? Should I just accept that this might be one of the "sparing" cases? Is Bazzite perhaps a poor fit for my use case? I've been trying to make sense of this guide, but I'm having trouble understanding how to apply it to my situation, since I'm not that familiar with Docker or Podman.

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[–] poki@discuss.online 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

OP, it seems as if the fear mongering and misinformation may have reached you through your cautious disposition.

I've gone through every single comment found below your post and at times I've been dumbfounded and/or astonished by the ludicrous claims that are spouted.

FFS, someone even expressed a problem found on imperative systems... While Fedora Atomic can be made (relatively) declarative (i.e. the exact opposite of imperative) for over a year now.

I will leave you with two videos in which the recent conference talks by the very same people that work on Fedora Atomic can be found. Consider watching these if you're interested to know what they're actually currently working on. If you pay attention, you will even notice how they mention common misconceptions that have also been brought up here...

First watch this one. Then, watch this.

The only fair criticism that I've found is the required investment and effort to adjust due to the associated paradigm shift and learning curve. However, this is peanuts compared to Guix System or NixOS.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay, I appreciate the links. I've had a chance to go over both, and I think I get the gist:

  • rpm-ostree is a work in progress, and it will be depreciated and replaced with bootc + dnf

However, I'm still struggling to understand how it all works together. For example, I have a VPN client that is installed via a .run script, so it doesn't work with ostree. If I wanted to apply this software to my system, I'd have to create a bootable container, then rebase to that. But my goal isn't to create a new image, just to apply transient packages to the base Bazzite image, so my remaining questions are these (and it's fine if you don't know):

If I made a bootable container(file), would that derived image fall out of sync with the parent Bazzite project? Would I have to manually build a new container and rebase each time I wanted to check for updates? I feel like I'm on the cusp of seeing the big picture, but I'm not quite getting it, and maybe that's because I haven't worked at all with services like Podman and Docker.

[–] Aqler@discuss.online 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yo OP, this is me @poki@discuss.online from another account. I had intended to leave the Lemmyverse for a while, but had to come back earlier than intended when I read your comment 😅.

So, without further a due.

Okay, I appreciate the links. I've had a chance to go over both, and I think I get the gist:

Thank you for your time!

  • rpm-ostree is a work in progress, and it will be depreciated and replaced with bootc + dnf

What do you mean with "work in progress"? You've been using it relatively often in this thread (and IIRC even in others) when talking about Fedora Atomic and/or uBlue and its technologies. Like, do you consider dnf to be work in progress because dnf5 is around the corner?

I don't recall any mention of deprecating rpm-ostree, though I might be wrong. But, yeah; it will definitely lose focus in favor of bootc + dnf.

For example, I have a VPN client that is installed via a .run script, so it doesn't work with ostree. If I wanted to apply this software to my system, I'd have to create a bootable container, then rebase to that.

I'm not actually sure if it works out just like that as of right now. Creating your own image or bootable container is definitely a powerful tool that can help bypass some imposed limits; like e.g. populating files in /usr or baking in (current) rpm-ostree actions -some of which actually wouldn't work otherwise (as of right now)- directly into the image. Finally, it allows one to move from an imperative to a declarative system. However, I'm not aware if it enables one to bake-in the installation of .run files. My only experience with .run files myself was with Davinci Resolve, but that's notoriously difficult to install regardless. Thankfully, it's a popular piece of software and thus avenues have been created by which one could install it on Fedora Atomic and related projects.

So, in short, I don't see how creating your own bootable container would help you to bypass this.

But my goal isn't to create a new image, just to apply transient packages to the base Bazzite image

Exactly.

If I made a bootable container(file), would that derived image fall out of sync with the parent Bazzite project?

If you achieve it through legit means (i.e. uBlue's own documentation on this or through a sister project called BlueBuild), then no.

Would I have to manually build a new container and rebase each time I wanted to check for updates?

By either of the two earlier mentioned means, the building is done automatically (on a daily basis) by GitHub. Furthermore, when you update, you just receive the latest image from your own GitHub repository in which your own image resides. Updates continue to be done automatically in the background, so you won't even notice. Finally, if it wasn't clear yet, you only have to rebase once.

I feel like I'm on the cusp of seeing the big picture, but I'm not quite getting it, and maybe that's because I haven't worked at all with services like Podman and Docker.

That's fine. Please feel free to inquire if you so desire!

Alright, having said all of that, let's get to the crux!

So, did you try the following methods when installing the .run file? If so, how did it go?

  • Simply double press or right-click then install (of course, after applying chmod +x).
  • Within a terminal with ./<name of .run file>.run
  • Within a terminal with ./<name of .run file>.run --appimage-extract and then interacting with the AppImage.

If all of the above have absolutely failed, I only see three ways going forward:

  • Creating your own Flatpak 😅.
  • (OR) Taking this to COPR 😅.
  • (OR) Succumb to Toolbx/Distrobox 😅. Like have you tried running the .run file within Toolbx/Distrobox? If so, how did it go?

EDIT: 😅. I had hoped you'd return with a reply soon~ish. But alas... Uhmm..., I'll be off for a couple of days and will return only next week. Just wanted to let you know*. FYI, I'll probs return with (yet) another account.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 4 months ago

Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but I made some progress.

What do you mean with "work in progress"?

Their words (second video, I think), and more in reference to how they are still working out how they haven't yet covered all of the use cases (like maybe my needs can't currently be met by rpm-ostree or bootc). rpm-ostree has functional limitations, and bootc is still being developed. Obviously, both are still useable and useful, and Universal Blue has been using them for quite a while. I may have been reading too much into it with the "depreciation" comment.

So, did you try the following methods when installing the .run file? If so, how did it go?

It can't work on its own. Running with sh or making it executable runs the script, but it fails when it tries to write its icon and .desktop entry to /usr (it also doesn't take an --appimage-extract argument). You can use sudo rpm-ostree usroverlay to create a temporary FS overlay for /usr, but it's wiped on the next boot. Still, that allowed the installation to complete.

I discovered that it's installing all of the necessary components to /opt, and they remain functional. I was able to manually run the daemon script required and get a WireGuard tunnel established in the client.

Now, I'm trying to get a .service module to work so it can run automatically as root on a reboot with systemd. So far, it's giving me a 126 exit code, so I still haven't figured out how to escalate its privileges automatically, but this is the most progress I've made to date.