this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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Fuck Cars

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Highway spending increased by 90% in 2021. This is one of many reasons why car traffic is growing faster than population growth.

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[–] abfarid@startrek.website 15 points 2 months ago (49 children)

While I'm a strong proponent of reducing and possibly eliminating car use, this image is disingenuous. They neatly packed 69 (nice) people into a medium bus, sure. But when showing cars, it's almost 1 persons per car (I counted 15 cars in a row and there are 4 rows, so 60 cars). You can definitely use cars more efficiently than that.

Assuming that actually autonomous self-driving cars exist, they could be extremely efficient. Especially if you treat them like ride sharing taxis. In other words, a lot of people could share the same car and that would reduce the amount of owned cars. They also never waste space being parked. So I can see how when we make a real self-driving car, it can potentially reduce traffic. Especially for all those cases where public transportation doesn't work.

And what the heck is a "connected car"?

[–] yimby@lemmy.ca 24 points 2 months ago (16 children)

Two facts:

  1. The average occupancy of a car in my North American city is 1.2 people per car. This does not vary much by city.
  2. Autonomous vehicles will almost certainly be worse for traffic than human driven cars. They will circle empty with no passengers and drive to pick up passengers empty (dead heading) even with a fully rideshare system. If there is widespread private ownership of autonomous vehicles (and you bet your butt that car companies will campaign for this aggressively to keep sales up), the dead heading problems only multiply. If you don't believe me, look up any recent literature on the topic: by most accounts it will be worse, not better. Dead heading is only the tip of the iceberg of problems there.
[–] abfarid@startrek.website -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Regarding your first point, I'm aware that that is the unfortunate truth. That IS the issue with cars when it comes to efficiency. ~~If you load the car with 3-5 passengers it easily beats busses in efficiency, according to my calculations. But that's not gonna happen.~~

Regarding your second point, the core of the issue is just capitalism, not self-driving cars or privately owned cars.
Cars don't have to drive around empty if they are some sort of shared transport that can pick up the nearest passenger.
If companies aren't gonna cause unnecessary car purchases only those who need them anyway will own them.

Basically, the problem with cars is not cars themselves as a concept, it's the overuse and misuse. But unfortunately, that isn't changing anytime soon.

[–] my_hat_stinks@programming.dev 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you load the car with 3-5 passengers it easily beats busses in efficiency, according to my calculations.

Huh? If you're being very generous you can fit 3 cars into the space of 1 bus. A bus can definitely hold more than 15 people.

[–] abfarid@startrek.website -1 points 2 months ago

I have already rescinded that decision in this comment. But I wasn't comparing the volume, I was comparing the amount of useful work done relative to the weight. If you wish, the details are in the linked comment.

[–] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 months ago

Basically, the problem with cars is not cars themselves as a concept, it's the overuse and misuse. But unfortunately, that isn't changing anytime soon.

So true, extra emphasis on the misuse in the US. I was recently in Iceland, which is a very car centric country, and I was amazed by how much better their car situation was. They kept their roads nice and tight, used roundabouts, they had 30kmph(18mph) speed limits in residential and city centers, raised sidewalks, etc. Best of all most people drove small cars! It was the first time I enjoyed driving and didn't mind being around cars because I actually felt safe.

But then I got back to the US and it was disgusting how wasteful we are with our car infrastructure. Instead of 9ft car lanes our lanes are 12ft minimum often with 8ft buffers. Even small suburban streets are 40 to 50 feet wide. Our parking lots look like lakes of asphalt, and our intersections are so fucking huge there is no safe way for a kid to use them

[–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Would love to see those calculations.

[–] abfarid@startrek.website 0 points 2 months ago

See this.

Spoiler alert: I decided I was wrong.

But try the cool calculator I made!

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Even being generous with using SUVs, a really small bus can fit 30+ people, in the same space that would occupy two SUVs with less than 10 people combined.

[–] abfarid@startrek.website 1 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I already crossed out that statement. See details here.

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